Vandenborre /Flemish tarot

[catlin]

When I was rearraning my tarot decks on Saturday, I was examining the Vandenborre more closely and some things struck me immediately as odd:

- The High Priestess is replaced by Capitaine Fracasse (who the heck was that guy? Did he really live or was he just a kind of mythical invention and if so, why did the artist choose him instead of a woman?)

- La Maison Dieu / Devil was renamed "La Foudre"

- Devil is renamed "Bacus"

Do you know any other decks which follow this Vandenborre Version?

Thanks in advance.

 

[baba-prague]

and also the Hanged Man isn't hanging - notoriously.

On my deck it seems to be Capitano Eracasse by the way.

Interesting deck isn't it?!

Oh, by the way, here is the Tarot Passages review complete with Kaplan's explanation of the Capitano.

http://www.tarotpassages.com/vanden.htm

oh, just noticed that this translates La Foudre as "Thunder" - my translation software said it was "Lightning" - maybe someone with good French would be kind enough to say which is correct?

 

[catlin]

Yes, I forgot to mention the hanged one who apparently is not hanged but standing on tiptoe.

It is indeed a very interesting deck (I am wondering if it is still in print, I would love to get another copy and to break that one in as a regular reading deck), but I think it is a bit unnoticed.

 

[baba-prague]

I got mine from AGMuller ages ago - they may still have copies.

 

[catlin]

I ordered mine from Königsfurt and when I wanted to reorder one again 2 years ago, they said oop.

But thanks for the suggestion with AGMüller (however, I do not want to order from them again because I had the worst experience with them some years ago after having ordered the Roots of Asia, I paid more for shipping, handling and customs than the deck was worth).

 

[prudence]

Hi

I have a Vandenborre, and love it. I think it was this deck that got me over my intolerance of "older looking" or "old fashioned"(sorry, but that was how I saw them back then, old fashioned! yikes) decks....I was a modern-decks-only person for a long time, and this one started me onto the path of TdM....

I got mine from Tarotgarden, I think they still have them? Not sure.

The Capt as Papesse, is odd to me too. Honestly, when I use the deck for readings and the Capt pops up, I just think "Papesse" and do not try to understand what he is supposed to mean. I thought that Pape was Bacchus, not le Diable....which sure makes for a more fun Pape card, sitting on a wine cask like he is!

But my favorite quirk to this deck, and the main reason I was so drawn to get it, was the way the faces are portrayed, especially the eyes....I love how the eyes are so big and many times off center....Queen of Cups is an appealing figure in the deck, with her big eyes.

 

[coredil]

- The High Priestess is replaced by Capitaine Fracasse (who the heck was that guy? Did he really live or was he just a kind of mythical invention and if so, why did the artist choose him instead of a woman?)

"Le Capitaine Fracasse" is a well known roman fron Theophille Gautier from 1863.
As I was young in France, this was a very well known caracter as there was a succesfull Film with Jean Marais.
The kind of film that is called "Mantel und Degen Film" in german.
Much adventures in a Theater and comedian surrounding.

But I cant answer your question why this figure has been choosed.

BTW I find the pictures and the faces on this deck very very friendly

 

[f. silvestris]

Before Gautier, Fracasse was a stock character from the commedia dell'arte.

 

[Sophie]

oh, just noticed that this translates La Foudre as "Thunder" - my translation software said it was "Lightning" - maybe someone with good French would be kind enough to say which is correct?

Your translation software is right . Thunder is tonnerre. Lightning was a title given to several Italian Towers in the 16th century.

It's not a mystery why a female pope (or a male one!) might have been replaced in ultra-Catholic Flanders, but it is a mystery why a bombastic male character of the commedia dell'arte was chosen to replace her! Unless by the 18th Century, The Papesse was considered a stock comic character, a little like the Ugly Sisters in panto - perhaps even seen as a man in drag. So as not to offend the ultras of his region Vandeborre replaced her/him with another exaggerated comic character. This could also signal (along with La Foudre) a direct Italian link for the deck.

The Pope's replacement by Bacchus is charming - you are blessed by wine and good spirits . Why that god was chosen (apart from the will to avoid Church censure), I don't know. Another Italian link? - anyone?

 

[catlin]

"Le Capitaine Fracasse" is a well known roman fron Theophille Gautier from 1863.
As I was young in France, this was a very well known caracter as there was a succesfull Film with Jean Marais.
The kind of film that is called "Mantel und Degen Film" in german.
Much adventures in a Theater and comedian surrounding.

Thanks a bunch, coredil, now I have at least something to look after. Maybe they choose a male comedy like figure to vex a bit their neighbours from Wallony?

Of course I know "Mantel- und Degenfilme", such as the "3 Musqueteers" or "Scaramouche" but I did not bring this kind of genre in connection with T. Gautier.