Violence card

[jumptothemoonyea]

As I was reading the The Devil as the dark side of Love I was trying to understand:

What makes someone a murderer?

What divides people between two polarities: animal fighting for survival and "Goodwill toward all beings is the true religion" (Buddha).

Why some (most) believe in "harm none" and others accept violence as a valid tool to achieve their goals?

Are these two polarities necessary parts of our dual existence?

What force drives people who kill?

What card (s) answer these questions?

 

[Gavriela]

The esoteric function of the High Priestess is war and peace. Just like the Empress is wisdom and folly, the Tower is grace and indignation, the Magician is life and death.

No 'or's' in there.

Food for thought.

 

[Thirteen]

Are these two polarities necessary parts of our dual existence?

I, myself, would never try to assign a card to either the extreme of Jainist pacisifism (where the person won't even harm insects) or that of serial killers. But I'm a little mystified as to why you assume our existance is merely dual. To me, our existance is an entire spectrum of ever moving points, from colorful hue to colorful hue rather than from black to white.

Hence, as readers, we can only judge which card might indicate a point between those extremes given the question and the card's placement. For example, are we talking physical, emotional or verbal violence? Are we talking slapping a child's hand to keep them from sticking it in a light socket or beating someone to death? The 5's all indicate some kind of abuse or conflict, likewise there are military aspects in the Emperor and the Chariot; the Hanged Man can indicate self-violence as well as enduring violence, and Strength could be resisting violence. It goes on and on. Name a card, and it can indicate any point in the spectrum between non-violence and violence. No one card contains it all.

So my answer to this question would be that a whole rainbow is necessary for our multi-dimensional existence. Given this, there can be no single card to stand for "violence" any more than there can be one single card to stand for "peace."

 

[greycats]

Specifically . . .

People murder for lots of reasons. There's no general answer. But, the thread to which you refer is about murder committed as a result of being in love with someone. Studies have been done on this unfortunately common crime (very few people are murdered by strangers), and you can become acquainted with them if you don't mind doing a bit of research. At the very least you can gain some insight regarding how to deal constructively with devastating personal events.

And if you did so, you'd be way ahead of most of us who hoped we'd behave well but who didn't actually know what we'd do until the event.

Cards: depends on the specific act. Justice (negative) might certainly be one. The Tower might describe the murderer's state of mind. The Empress (negative) for loss of life and the Emperor (negative) for civic disorder are others. That still leaves Death, the Devil and the Wheel which certainly mix in murder.

 

[Mellifluous]

Choice, immorality, and lack of impulse control, I would imagine.

I don't think tarot cards are going to 'answer' such questions. You'd be better off reading full length psychology (religion, philosophy, and criminology) books, no?

 

[jumptothemoonyea]

The esoteric function of the High Priestess is war and peace. Just like the Empress is wisdom and folly, the Tower is grace and indignation, the Magician is life and death.

No 'or's' in there.

Food for thought.

Beautifully said Gavriela. Maybe our problem is in separating life and death?

...I'm a little mystified as to why you assume our existance is merely dual. To me, our existance is an entire spectrum of ever moving points, from colorful hue to colorful hue rather than from black to white.

Thank you Thirteen. I can see the truth in your every word. The duality is just a part of multitude. In this case I was specifically interested in the opposite forces behind goodwill and violence in their extreme states. There are of course many shades.

The Tower might describe the murderer's state of mind.

The Tower does look like an archetype of act of violence. Destroying one system by the power of another.

I don't think tarot cards are going to 'answer' such questions. You'd be better off reading full length psychology (religion, philosophy, and criminology) books, no?

Good advise Mellifluous. I do though consider tarot cards an ultimate source I just need to understand.


How about: in our Universe and beyond, two superpowerfull forces exist - the goodwill, love, life and violence, destruction (like in Heaven and Hell). They interact with us through consciousness. The question is : do we have a choice? Do we choose or they do?

 

[Thirteen]

The question is : do we have a choice? Do we choose or they do?

Heh. This is called a false delemma. It doesn't have to be one or the other. It could be both. Or either given the circumstance.

 

[Kenny]

How about: in our Universe and beyond, two superpowerfull forces exist - the goodwill, love, life and violence, destruction (like in Heaven and Hell). They interact with us through consciousness. The question is : do we have a choice? Do we choose or they do?

Think about the Chinese. They have a Yin/Yang symbol (sadly I'm not sure of its name). This shows the two opposts together as one, they are both needed to be part of a whole.

If you wish I'll try and expand this argument later after I do more research on this subject.

 

[sleepingcat]

As I was reading the The Devil as the dark side of Love I was trying to understand:

What makes someone a murderer?

What divides people between two polarities: animal fighting for survival and "Goodwill toward all beings is the true religion" (Buddha).

Why some (most) believe in "harm none" and others accept violence as a valid tool to achieve their goals?

Are these two polarities necessary parts of our dual existence?

What force drives people who kill?

What card (s) answer these questions?

Humans kill... because we are animals. We're very agressive animals at that.

We're terretorial, possesive, selfish and determined to survive.

When some one hurts us and we're unable to escape, we attack to defend our survival.

When we're treated like animals we act like animals and attack our captor.

We attack each other when we belive there's a lack of resources and we want to secure our share (food, water, land, relegion, affections, property.... all fits in here)

We kill be our perceptions become skewed though imbalance and disease, sickly animals are the most dangerous of all.

We kill to eliminate therats before they hurt us or that which we chose to protect.

It's very fundmental, very ingraned to our nature.

When we feel we no longer have resources that we need to protect, such as the enlightened state, we have no reason to kill. There's no pie to even HAVE a bigger slice of.

However we give up an animal state, a living state. Plants kill eachother too, they'll murder eachother in cold blood for richer soil, daylight or to reap the nutrients of their victims corpse.

Some times the life death cycle cant wait around for old age.

Strength and the Wheel, along with the 5 of wands would make a murderer spread to me. The 5 of pents could come in, the 9 of swords so easily... The three of swords, the tower, the hirophant, the hermit. They're all suspects. They all have somthing they want to defend. The emperess and the emperor as well. The 10 of pentacles if you would wish to defend your home, the 10 of swords if you seek vengance.

it... jsut a power that we have, to kill, be killed or refrain from killing. At any given moment all 3 legs of the triangle are going to be resisting eachother and holding the thing up. One can never become disporpornate to the others either.

It's puzzling why.... it really is.... Sorry this post turned so long and rambly.

 

[May]

I, myself, would never try to assign a card to either the extreme of Jainist pacisifism (where the person won't even harm insects) or that of serial killers. But I'm a little mystified as to why you assume our existance is merely dual. To me, our existance is an entire spectrum of ever moving points, from colorful hue to colorful hue rather than from black to white.

Hence, as readers, we can only judge which card might indicate a point between those extremes given the question and the card's placement. For example, are we talking physical, emotional or verbal violence? Are we talking slapping a child's hand to keep them from sticking it in a light socket or beating someone to death? The 5's all indicate some kind of abuse or conflict, likewise there are military aspects in the Emperor and the Chariot; the Hanged Man can indicate self-violence as well as enduring violence, and Strength could be resisting violence. It goes on and on. Name a card, and it can indicate any point in the spectrum between non-violence and violence. No one card contains it all.

So my answer to this question would be that a whole rainbow is necessary for our multi-dimensional existence. Given this, there can be no single card to stand for "violence" any more than there can be one single card to stand for "peace."

Woww so true and so beautifully expressed. Yes a whole rainbow is necessary and I believe every card has various aspects. Not just positive and negative and they reveal what they want to convey according to the question, with the help of surrounding cards and sometimes its what my first thought is looking at the card.