Was Aleister Crowley really as bad as depicted?

gregory

There is a website by one David J. Stewart who specifically accuses Crowley of child sacrifice, and Benjamin Franklin and Crowley, along with McCartney and Lennon of being Satanists. For some reason this website manages to remain near the top in any Google search of Crowley's name.
It has just been pointed out to me that Stewart believes that the street magician Criss Angel is the AntiChrist. Not very reliable, I'd say :laugh: Nuts would be closer to the truth....
Since Frieda Harris was 60 when she met Crowley, it may be unsurprising if he didn't exploit her for "sex magic", as he did some younger women.
Who actually says they were exploited ?
One may wonder what it was about Frieda Harris that made her a suitable artist for Crowley's tarot project.
The quality of her art, I'd say. She was very keen to do it.
Am I overly-cynical if I link this with Crowley's bankruptcy of a couple of years earlier? My feeling is that, in 1937, Crowley's finances remained in a very delicate condition. I doubt whether his cash reserves would have run to paying an artist to produce 78 paintings. He needed someone who would paint the cards without immediate (or even longer term?) financial return. Frieda Harris, as a wealthy socialite who could paint, was ideal. It is quite possible to read the Crowley/Harris relationship and correspondence as cynical manipulation on Crowley's part.
I'd say - yes, over-cynical would be a fair description here ! :D Have you actually read any of the better biographies, any of Frieda's letters and so on ?
I am not saying that Frieda Harris was an inferior artist, just that she may have accepted flattery, and initiation into Crowley's magical orders, in lieu of more conventional payment.
I really doubt that. I really doubt that A LOT.
 

Zephyros

It is true that she gave him a weekly stipend of (I think) two pounds a week (how much is that in today's money?) but that was payment for lessons in everything from Kabbalah to yoga to whatever caught her fancy. In addition, it was all but agreed upon that he would stay out of the spotlight where the cards were concerned, since she knew who she was dealing with, had no illusions about him, and didn't want him messing things up.

On his side, he was so obsessed with the importance of the deck and the book, that he writes repeatedly that he would still do the work even if he didn't receive any payment for it (which, as it turned out, he really didn't). I think someone back then asked these same questions, as he writes:

1. Originally the idea was to dash off a pack of cards from (a) the elaborate "Equinox" descriptions (b) mediaeval packs, as The Equinox did not describe the 22 Trumps. We thought that a day apiece would be enough for the 40 small cards; two days apiece for the 16 court cards and 11 weeks for the 22 Trumps. This was thought to be an outside estimate--say 6 months in all, allowing for holidays & interruptions.

2. The "Stipend" [L]2 weekly had nothing to do with my work on the Tarot, which was practically a full-time job. It was to cover my doing shopping and odd commissions for her--in many cases I paid the cost out of my own pocket. But principally it was to use me as a tame "Brains Trust".

I instructed her in astronomy and astrology, mysticism, Yoga, geometry, algebra, history, literture, chemistry and what not.

I even criticised--very fruitfully--her own efforts at painting.

_______

This work, carried out sometimes by correspondence--very voluminous-- sometimes by direct verbal instruction, had nothing to do with my Tarot work, which was entirely covered by my 2/3 interest in the property.

________

Note that the stipend and instruction have continued since the completion of the work on the Tarot.

And then on, he writes of his own stake in the project:

Essential Condition of Peace.

The cards are not to be sold without the book.

If the book can be printed without illustrations it need not cost more than [L]300.

If Lady Harris likes, she can give it away with the cards, I do not want any money out of it: and she can say she wrote it, I don't care.

But I will not allow the cards to be issued so that they can be used only for gambling or fortune-telling.

The new catalogue, full of grotesque blunders which discredit the scholarship of the Work, must be withdrawn.

I want to stress that I am not defending him or his lifestyle, I must admit I don't know enough to do so, only that facts should be exact.
 

gregory

I was born before you, my father was a vicar in the C of E - and we certainly did.
 

Aeon418

I don't expect to make any friends by posting this, but I am very much a former admirer of the late Mr Crowley.
Former admirer? You're not the first person to witness the shinning vision of Saint Aleister transform into the vile Demon Crowley. It's a very commom phenomenon among Crowley 'fans'. P.T. Mistlberger touches on this point in his rather excellent book, The Three Dangerous Magi. (Recommended! :thumbsup:)
A long standing problem in the area of relating to a spiritual teacher - even more so, to controversial crazy-wisdom type teachers like Osho, Gurdjieff, and Crowley - has been the issue of what is known in psychology as 'transference'. The idea of transference in this context was first introduced by Freud, who noticed in his sessions of psychoanalysis with his patients that the manner by which he operated - listening impassively while encouraging the patient to open up and share their deepest thoughts and feelings - resulted in a dynamic between him and the patient in which the patient would eventually begin to project the image of someone from their past onto him. Most typically this would be a parent, or less occasionally, another important authority figure from their earlier years.

This phenomenon is actually quite common between any psychotherapist and their client, equally so between any spiritual teacher and their student. It tends to be accentuated if the guru or therapist is remote in some way, or very charasmatic. The disciple or client will often build a fantasy image of the mentor in their minds, in which they will (mostly unconsciously) use the mentor as a vehicle to re-experience old thoughts and feelings connected to childhood authority figures. Again, these authority figures are usually parental.

If the nature of tranference is not eventually recognized, the danger lies in the possiblity of not seeing the guru or mentor realistically, which can easily lead to resentment if one begins to imagine that one is being ignored, not being loved or appreciated enough, being disrespected, or what have you. Moreover, if the student or client has major unresolved issues from their earlier years, or had a parent who abused them or abandoned them or otherwise was very incompetent in their parental role, this increases the danger that they will, sooner or later, begin to see 'flaws' in their teacher or therapist and then seek to justify their perceptions by seeing only what they want to see. This is sometimes referred to as 'finding the thorn in the bush of a hundred roses'.
Spiritual teachers and guru's make excellent targets for psychological projection, so they have to be careful. The really "successful" ones are the ones who manage to cultivate an aura of stainless virtue and spiritual sanctity. The less you know about their private lives the better. ;) Classic figures like Jesus Christ are squeaky clean and therefore hard to project upon negatively. But at least there's always the Devil to blame. })
Crowley is quite different though. As Mistlberger points out elsewhere in his book, Crowley is unique among spiritual teachers in that his life is an open book. You get to see the warts and all, and sometimes it gets quite ugly. Anyone who tries to idolize Crowley is going to be in for one heck of a rough ride sooner or later.
My principle reason for rejecting him is that he harmed the people about him. All of those who associated with him, during his lifetime, of whose histories I am aware, had reason to regret doing so. Can anyone name a person to whom he brought joy?
I doubt that Crowley would have had such a wide circle of friends if he were a total monster to them all all of the time. But there is no getting away from the fact that in the sphere of interpersonal relationships Crowley could be a difficult character. In such a case it is inevitable that our attention is drawn towards the "train-wrecks" that happen along the way. Anything that happend in between these points tends to be obscured, joy and all.
Of the things he wrote, something that sticks in my recollection (and my throat) is his admiration of Islam,
Crowley did admire the inner, esoteric teachings of Islam. Although he considered the external creed to be mere nonsense suitable to the people amongst which it was promulagted.
especially its attitude to women. This, coupled with his treatment of women, leads me to view him as a misogynist.
Crowley most definitely had misogynistic tendencies. Intellectually he advocated the total emancipation of women, but in practice he sometimes fell short of the mark. But if you look at Crowley in the context of the time in which he lived he was actually a bleeding heart liberal. By todays standards he's not. But then if you turn the retrospective moral eye on a whole host of historical figures Crowley turns out to be nothing special.
As to his ideas, the Aeons of Isis, Osiris and Horus seem a trite notion without basis in history. For a start, one would find it difficult to identify a matriarchal culture during the supposed Aeon of Isis.
The Three Aeon idea is a very interesting and useful developmental model for the emergence of religious themes and states of evolving conscious. But trying to exactly map it onto history is a bit pointless.
In essence, I think, Mr Crowley was a Christian heretic.
It's certainly possible to see Thelema as a Christian heresy. But it would be a very shallow, surface view.
In raising his drug use, I don't think it matters much whether or not he originally took the drugs for medical reasons. The fact of the matter is that heroin (taken for any reason) isn't health food for the body or the mind.
Actually there is an entry in one of Crowley's diaries where he comes to the conclusion that heroin is completely useless and best avoided. But unfortunately Crowley's relationship with heroin was a Hobson's choice. It was either take heroin and alleviate his asthma symptoms or choke to death. Which would you pick?

An interesting point is that when Crowley was introduced to a German made asthma treatment he kicked the heroin habit and did not touch it again until 1940. The outbreak of World War II effectively cut off the German made medicine, so once more he was prescribed the standard treatment by his doctor. Heroin, another thorn amid the roses.
 

kwaw

I think that is very misleading, and we will come to quite a different conclusion if we look at wages, rather than prices.

In 1945, £2 10s was a good weekly wage for an ordinary working man. . .

£2, not £2 10s, but even at £2 10s it was below the minimum weekly wage for an agricultural labourer in 1945:

Wage rates for building craftsman in Southern England per day (in pence (240 pennies per £1 old English sterling) @ 10 hours per day) :

1937 (185 ) - 1947 (325)

For building labourers:

1937 (140) - 1947 (260)

1945 255 (craftsman) 205 (labourer)


Average minimum wage for agricultural labourers for basic hours (pounds / shillings / pence - basic hours):

Oct 1937 - Sep 1938 1/14/2 50.2
Oct 1946 - Sep 1947 4/0/10 48.0

(Oct 1945 - Sep 1946 3/12/2 48.4)

http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~alan/family/N-Money.html#1264
 

gregory

If I might, I'd like to return this thread to first principles. It seems to me (and I hope we can agree on this) that there are four views of Crowley. They are not mutually exclusive, and more than one might be partially correct:

1. He was the Antichrist, the Great Beast, the wickedest man in the world, and all round bad egg.

2. He was a magus and the prophet of the New Aeon.

3. He was deluded.

4. He was a showman, a self-publicist and cynical manipulator of those about him.

To make my position clear:

I think that (1) involves accepting a load of looney stuff from Christianity. I don't think it makes any sense. As I don't believe in prophets, magic or "Aeons", I can't accept (2), either. Which leaves me with a combination of (3) and (4), both of which I believe to be (to some extent) true.
I guess that is why your profile says you regret having been influenced by him ? But you seem to WANT to see him as bad ?

I think he was probably a magus. The prophet thing - not so sure. Deluded - we all are, in our own way. No 4 - I think, again - we all have that within us - he no more than most, except that to be who he was required some degree of self-publicity. Not a sin.
 

Aeon418

Another interesting quote from The Three Dangerous Magi - P.T. Mistlberger (p.224-226)
Sorry about the length of the quote, but it's well worth reading. :)

Understanding the contrast between conventional or relative truths, and ultimate or absolute truths, is crucial if we are going to understand controversial spiritual figures like Osho, Gurdjieff, and Crowley (and many others). This is because in the case of teachers like them the contrast is particularly vivid. Crowley claimed being an 'Ipsissimus', an ultimate level of development, and yet ends up addicted to hard drugs and leads a life that in the domain of interpersonal relationships appears to be in large part a mess. Gurdjieff is regarded as a highly advanced master by many, and yet appears to others to be a volatile, hard drinking, chain smoking, Dr. Jekyll-Mr. Hyde type. Osho claims full enlightenment, yet dictates books while stoned on nitrous oxide, appears to be oblivious to his Oregon commune falling apart, and is given a fleet of ninety-three Rolls-Royces, which he accepts. The controversial Tibetan master Chogyam Trungpa is understood in his own tradition to be a tulku, a highly evolved being, and ends up dying at age forty-eight of liver damage brought on by years of hard drinking. (And there are endless other examples.) How to account for all that?

More than one observer - many of whom were students at one point or another of any of these (or similar) crazy-wisdom type teachers - has gotten entangled in perceptions that focus exclusively on the conventional personalities of these teachers, thereby ending up invalidating all work done with them and by extension, all work done on themselves when with them (or their communities). This is clearly problematic. Further, many who are intrigued by the idea of walking a spiritual path find out about teachers like these and never bother stepping on the path in the first place, assuming that the whole thing is inherently corrupt because the gurus themselves are inherently corrupt. There is even something of a cottage industry that has sprung up around trashing spiritual teachers of any stripe. The internet, that domain notorious for all kinds of people suddenly finding courage to express certain ideas, is rife with websites devoted to guru-bashing. (An ammusing example of this is the site www.strippingthegurus.com, which is devoted to attacking a long list of well known spiritual teachers. Many of the points the author makes are valid, and some of his remarks are genuinely funny, but the whole thing suffers from the typical Achilles Heel of 'guru-critics' and that is the problem of context. Almost always such critiques are notoriously bereft of proper context.)

Many of the issues inherent in the problem of the 'Dr. Jekyll-Mr. Hyde' type guru are resolved when the contrast between absolute and conventional realities is clarified. Put simply, any guru, no matter how seemingly sublime, remains a human being, bound by the limitations and laws of nature that a human body-mind must conform to.

Most of the wisdom traditions recognize that there are different levels of illumination or enlightenment, beginning with enlightenment at the level of the mind, and culminating in a supreme state of realization in which the entire body-mind is transfigured. What is also generally recognized is that, in the vast majority of cases, an enlightened teacher has only passed through the preliminary stages of awakening, at the level of the mind. Further, it is usually agreed that such a level of realization does not completely transform the personality, and not necessarily even all neurotic tendencies. Georg Feuerstein, in his excellent work, Holy Madness, quotes the radical Indian guru U.G. Krishnamurti (not to be confused with J. Krishnamurti) as follows:

The personality does not change when you come into this state [of enlightenment]. You are, after all, a computer machine that reacts as it has been programmed. It is in fact your present efforts to change yourself which are taking you away from yourself and are keeping you from functioning in a natural way. The personality will remain the same. Don't expect such a man to become free from anger or idiosyncrasies. Don't expect some kind of spiritual humility... it is for this reason that each person who comes to this state expresses it in a unique way, in terms which are relevant to this time.

It can be safely surmised that neither Crowley or Gurdjieff or Osho were examples of complete enlightenment involving total transfiguration of the body-mind. All three, however were almost certainly examples of awakened mystics at the level of the mind. In addition, all three had extremely dynamic personalities - powerful intellects, agressive tendencies, autocratic, willful, arrogant, stubborn, energetic, and highly charasmatic. It can also easily be noted that these personality qualities existed prior to their deeper awakenings, and without question continued to exist, in large part, after their awakenings.

This is an important point because there is an idea found in some spiritual philosophies that the personality is dissolved with enlightenment, or worse, there is the commonly found new age belief that the personality becomes 'nice' - unconditionally loving and graceful at all times - after a spritual awakening. This view is clearly counter to all evidence. Occasionally, one finds a spiritual teacher who has a particularly smooth or easy-going nature, but almost always one finds out that this was their basic personality-type prior to their spiritual realizations as well.