Where to start?

[Open Arms]

I have both the Liber T and the Thoth decks and a copy of the Book of Thoth - as yet unread. Having flicked through both decks they are very similar in imagery so I wonder - is it better to start with the Liber T and then go to the Thoth or the other way around?

As a complete Thoth newbie I have been reading the postings here and get completely lost on the zodic, numerology and decans stuff but I hope to pick that up once I a) read the book and b) use the deck.

Advice please?

 

[Aeon418]

I have both the Liber T and the Thoth decks and a copy of the Book of Thoth - as yet unread. Having flicked through both decks they are very similar in imagery so I wonder - is it better to start with the Liber T and then go to the Thoth or the other way around?

Except for one point, it really doesn't matter which deck you decide to start with. My advice would be to chose the one which apeals to you most on an artistic level.

When reading the Book of Thoth bear in mind that the amount of over-lap between the Liber-T and the Thoth deck is huge. Everything in the Book of Thoth applies equally to both decks. It's a real 2-for-1 offer. The only thing you won't find in the Book of Thoth is any mention of the decan imagery found on the Liber-T minor cards. I believe Scion has created a pdf full of material on these images. I'm sure if you ask him he will help you out.

 

[Emily]

Hi Open Arms,

I've used the Liber T exclusively for a few years now and still don't know all its little twists and turns, it's a deck with many layers - I've just recently started getting into the Decans but have just been using it visually, it gives good readings no matter how basic you use it but it's very open for study.

Scion's PDF is brilliant and well worth getting hold of. But other resources for the Liber T are Thoth books. The Book of Thoth is always worth reading but Lon Milo DuQuette's book is more reader-friendly. I'm trying to re-read both at the moment because I've also decided to try and get more into the Thoth.

As for which deck to start with, just go with the one that is more appealing. For me it was the Liber T and then also studying the Thoth later on at the same time.

 

[Le Fanu]

We're all so different...

The only important thing here is to choose one rather than trying to get to grips with both simultaneously!

I really think it would make sense to study the Thoth first as this is the system and the Liber T draws on this system rather than looking at the chicken and then the egg. However, it really depends on what draws you in the most.

One thing that does seem to be generally true is that everyone prefers one or the other. I don't subscribe to the idea of "Oh if you like the Thoth, you'll love the Liber T" They're both so different.

I may come back to the Liber T but for the moment it doesn't make much sense to me, whereas the Thoth does.

 

[Open Arms]

I had a look at both decks and the Liber T doesn't seem as... frantic in imagery as the Thoth, but the Thoth seems to have more...detail.. content?

I think I will have to draw a couple of paired cards from each and meditate over them to see which ones speak to me more.

I saw the thread about Scions PDF when I was doing my research and wasn't sure if it was something to leap into from the start or something to work up to. I know its for the Liber T but does it still help with the Thoth considering the imagery is based upon the same concepts?

Thank you all for your comments so far.

 

[Le Fanu]

Stuff on the Decans is always helpful but Scion's pdf focuses on the imagery in the small "pip" Liber T cards, the tiny scenes full of symbolic & mythological chraracters/ animals. As these scenes don't feature in the Thoth (but are what make the Liber T unique) it wouldn't really be that useful for the Thoth. There are other books to help you with the Thoth.

 

[Scion]

Here's my take.

The only way to approach the Crowley-Harris deck (and by extension the Liber T) for the first time is to pick an area to focus on and whittle away at it. Pick somehtig that interests you, intrigues you, perplexes you... so that when you start picking ast it you'll have a little extra oomph in your investigation. Give either deck a chance to seduce you.

So when you're deciding between them opt for the one that gets your motor going a bit. The Thoth is MUCH more detailed and scrupulous about the included details, as well as being the source document. The Liber T is "sexier" if less accurate with regard to shapes and color, but it features those beautiful haunting decan images on the pips. The Thoth has the advantage of being much bigger and clearer than the Liber T, merely because of the size of the cards. So that may help you decide. In choosing, ask yourself what intrigues you... Astrology? Qabalah? Alchemy? Gender roles? Gnosticism? Mythology? Magick? Any of those topics (and more) are waiting in there for you... any one of them will lead you to the other topics. They are paths that cross and crisscross under the branches of the Tree and under the Stars.

Don't be scared by anything people have said about Book of Thoth. It's not nearly as rough as people make out and often hilarious/heartbreaking; the trick is to just wade in and enjoy it. Pick up what you can and go back often as your curiosity dictates. Also, I always recommend it... and you should hold off a bit before you tackle it, but I love love love "The Wake World" in Konx Om Pax, which you can find online (with helpful notes) in several places. It's a kind of fairytale journey through the cards of the Thoth written by Crowley, often literally using Thoth symbols and imagery to express some ravishing ideas about Magick and Will.

The Liber T is my deck of choice, but I'd read the Thoth for over 20 years before I picked it up. So I'd say pick your poison. What gets you all hot and bothered when you look at the two of them? Which deck will give you the best shot at exploring the topic? If it's colors or Qabalah, the Thoth is more accurate and scrupulous. If it's astrology, the Liber T covers a lot of stuff that Crowley didn't spend time on. If it's Projective Synthetic Geometry, a trimmed Thoth makes things much easier to trace, and the Liber T doesn't really replicate the effect. If you want streamlined images that aren't as adamantly Golden Dawn adherent in colors and forms, the Liber T will give you that.

Which do you reckon?

 

[Open Arms]

Astrology, Qabalah and Numerology are not my forte although I do have a little interest in them. Gender issues and Alchemy while interesting, do not grab me and hold my attention.

Mythology and Magick however - now there I have had an interest since childhood - and being a medium and spirit healer I already have had some experience with some of those aspects of power and the mythology goes back to the first book on the subject I read when I was 7 or so. I once got 52 out of 50 on a history test because I was able to bring in books that showed the Minotaur as being a man with a bulls head and a bull with a man's head depending on which author you followed. My teacher was not happy...

I have collected mythology from many sources over time while the Magick studies has been more of the intra personal look to thyself type Magick. You cannot control power until you can control yourself and know where you stand. Tarot has played a role in there as well, opening up a new channel for my intuition to come out and play.

There is a part of me that knows there is a linkage there and I get the *nudge* that studying the Thoth or Liber T will give me some answers to that which drives me. Its a bit like being in a dark room with several doors - each one going somewhere but I don't know what lies behind them. There are people in the room who can tell me what they perceive to be behind each door but its up to me make the choice and to go forward.

After a 20 year marriage where I had to lock that side of me down and away, it has been a wild ride these past 3-4 years since my divorce and the learning curve has been steep.

But as my dear old 77 year old mother says - a day when you learn something, no matter how small, is a day not wasted.

 

[WolfyJames]

In my case I got the Thoth as a gift years ago, and I bought along with it both Duquette's books on Thoth and Quaballah. The Thoth left me cold and ended up buried somewhere. It's when I got the Liber T that my fever for the Thoth system started and I've been using the Liber T ever since. I don't see the interest of ever using the Thoth with the Liber T being oh so better to my eyes.

 

[Open Arms]

I did a side by side card pull and felt a definite pull to the Thoth - so here we go I suppose ! I just started reading the Book of Thoth - I only hope it isn't printed Mogodon or I am going to be lost!

I did a four card pull to see how this deck and I would get along - 2 Swords, The Magus, 6 Disks, 6 Wands which I took as being rather positive.