Will Lenormand stay pure and simple or not

danieljuk

You must be a cartomant--I think that this prediction is spot on. :) The contemporary new age market values profit and getting the scoop much more than it does tradition or quality (see Katz and Goodwin's "Learning Lenormand" for strong proof of this fact). That being said, I'm not sure that we should grant tradition the exclusive ability to deem what is and is not properly called Lenormand. From what I know, the history of the deck is far from uniform.

Personally, I'm waiting for Doreen Virtue's "Angel Lenormand." })

I was just going to post that! ;)
if there is a market in Lenormand the same thing will happen as tarot! they want to sell product! if they can make a hello kitty Lenormand that sells they will! (I might actually buy that if it ever was convinced just to see how they do the animal cards :D)

I am not sure how pure and simple Lenormand is already to be honest, there is many different trains of thought (modern and traditional) already about it. It's complicated already
 

Le Fanu

Funny, I was just ruminating on just this subject the last few weeks.

But in answer to your question; will it stay pure and simple? No it won't.

I think we're seeing an acceleration of things until they become gobblegook.

This is the first time in my life that I have thought that the more information available the worse it is. In the case of Lenormand, I have seen something I rather liked a few years ago to feeling sated, with every new thing I read seeming contradictory.

I think there are two options with Lenormand; either learn in a vacuum without consulting different sources (and pointedly ignoring anyone who tries to "help" you) or don't learn at all. :D

I am going through a phase of feeling all the joy and colour draining out of Lenormand...
 

shadowdancer

Le Fanu, I understand where you are coming from.

I am a late comer to this system, only now deciding to give it a go. Tarot needs a break from me, or I need a break from tarot. This is something that clicks with me and I am enjoying the start of the journey. I like how it has a fairly solid basis. I like how it encourages simplicity and using 50 words instead of 500.

But....

I do not want to get caught up with offerings, teachings, publications etc which have lost sight of what Lenormand actually is. I just have a feeling that forthcoming publications are likely to end up confusing at worst, or stretching it beyond what is reaonsable at the least. There will be the urge to add a new system or two, and before you know it, it has become tarot's sibling. Some may be genuine in their attempt, others may be bandwagon jumping, others may be seeing it as a way to get in early and make a few fast bucks. This is the sadness I am feeling with Lenormand, and just hope in the future it is allowed to retain a sense of purity, and not become something it isn't.
 

Lee

I think we're seeing an acceleration of things until they become gobblegook.
I was very interested to read this remark because I've been thinking it lately as well.

The thing that intrigues me is the apparent tendency we have to want to take something relatively simple and build it up into something like astrology, i.e. a vast esoteric system which takes years to learn and fills 300-page books.

It seems to me that Lenormand is relatively simple. 36 cards. Assign a concept or a few related concepts to each card. Then start combining the cards like words in a sentence. I honestly don't think it needs to get more complicated than that. But I guess no publisher would be interested in publishing that book -- it would only be about 30 pages long.

Yes, there is the GT, which looks complicated to beginners, but I'll bet that once one has internalized the meanings and grown accustomed to reading cards in lines, the GT would be a fairly simple process. When children learn to read, a children's book is like Mt. Everest, but years later, we can zip through that book in minutes.

When I wrote my book on reading with the TdM, Lo Scarabeo gave me a maximum word count. At first I was worried at how much I would have to leave out. But when I finished writing it, I realized that the limit they gave me was actually the perfect length. When published, it was 64 pages. My Marseilles method doesn't rely on Golden Dawn or other esotericism, and without it, it's just not that complicated an endeavor, and a 300-page book would simply (in my opinion) contain a lot of unnecessary filler.

Yes, someone could write a book about Lenormand and use each card as a jumping-off point to follow every imaginable cultural rabbit into its rabbit-hole. That kind of book may or may not be interesting, depending on the quality of the writing, but either way, would it really help us read the cards?

I do feel that the fact that this overcomplicating tendency is playing out in Lenormand now is really no reason to feel downtrodden or to give up. What other people do doesn't need to affect us. They can publish books, but nobody is forcing us to read them. It surely must be possible to find your own path through Lenormand without letting what other people do with it bring you down.
shadowdancer said:
This is the sadness I am feeling with Lenormand, and just hope in the future it is allowed to retain a sense of purity, and not become something it isn't.
I guess what I'm saying is that the sense of purity should come from within you (or me or anyone), and from finding our own ways to relate to the cards, rather than depending on finding it in the outside world.
 

Le Fanu

The thing that intrigues me is the apparent tendency we have to want to take something relatively simple and build it up into something like astrology, i.e. a vast esoteric system which takes years to learn and fills 300-page books.

It seems to me that Lenormand is relatively simple. 36 cards. Assign a concept or a few related concepts to each card. Then start combining the cards like words in a sentence. I honestly don't think it needs to get more complicated than that. But I guess no publisher would be interested in publishing that book -- it would only be about 30 pages long.
Yes. I agree with this. I also learnt from an explanation of the GT in Britta Kienle's book which was extremely concise and just a few pages long. So basically a book with 36 pretty concise meanings + succinct GT spread and you're off...

I shuddered the other day when someone referred to an astrological association of a Lenormand card. I suppose it's a case of one upmanship. If you can post something like that - and in public - then I suppose you're very obviously cleverer than me and a lot of other people... And on and on it goes.

Funny I've had a blog post percolating in my brain recently on just this subject...
 

Lee

I completely agree about astrological associations in Lenormand. I don't want to offend anyone who does that, but to me it seems completely unnecessary and in fact counterproductive. To me, the point of the whole thing is that you have a card with an image, a title, and a number, and that should be all we need. (I'm willing to tolerate the playing card inset out of respect for tradition, but I certainly don't find it useful.)

Britta's card meanings and GT methods are remarkably concise, but what kills it for me is that she has very specific meanings she assigns to combinations of two cards -- hundreds and hundreds of combinations. And those combinations aren't just for when the cards are adjacent to one another, but can be anywhere on a line. So one is expected to memorize all those combinations. So now something simple has become complex again.
 

Richard

One always has the option of not purchasing the "latest and greatest" innovations in Tarot or Lenormand design. I know that for many this is an unacceptable option, but it may be the only way to impede the madness and the waste of trees. Just my 2¢. FWIW, I'm perfectly happy with my Dondorf and Blue Owl.
 

Le Fanu

Britta's card meanings and GT methods are remarkably concise, but what kills it for me is that she has very specific meanings she assigns to combinations of two cards -- hundreds and hundreds of combinations. And those combinations aren't just for when the cards are adjacent to one another, but can be anywhere on a line. So one is expected to memorize all those combinations. So now something simple has become complex again.
I pick and choose - as I'm sure you do. I build up my own meanings from what I read, what chimes with me, what make sense with me and doesn't overlap with another card etc. I struggled for so long with the GT and her explanation plus Melissa's tips were what clinched it for me. I'm no expert but at last I can find a way in.
 

Padma

I only began learning/reading the Lenormand last October, but what struck me was the mass confusion of whose system to use - French, German, and I think, Austrian. From what I can gather, there is also a Hungarian method ( and likely many, many other methods.)

I bought two books, Sylvie Steinbach's (completely confusing) and Katz/Goodwin's (confusing and incomplete). I found many websites devoted to learning it, but in the end it was one website that fit the bill - comprehensive explanations of pairs and spreads - and no bafflegab - and suddenly I began to understand it.

I have two Lenormand decks, the more modern one I much prefer to the older, merely because the art pleases the eye - but the way certain cards are depicted has kind of ruined the meaning for me, so I prefer to read with my old, plain LoS deck, a repro of the so-called "original" Lenormand deck. Just the simple symbol pictures.

What it has boiled down to, for me, in the end, is that they are simple symbol keys that you use to unlock your intuition, mostly...you only need a few keywords per, and to use your intuition, along with some basic insights on pairing, and you're good. It needn't be more complicated than that.

And...no need to do the GT either. I have found this little deck performs like a dream for short, snappy two or three-card answers to simple questions...I do believe many things get lost in overly complicated explanations...

Anyone want my two books? })

ETA I have found the planetary links are helpful when determining timings, that's about it :p
 

frelkins

And let me chime in my general agreement here - as well as my continued wish, expressed regularly over the past what? 5 years? - that Lee Bursten's TdM book be available solo as Kindle download. :D Someday. . .