kwaw
jmd said:
The accentuated white face could suggest a mask?
Kwaw
XVII Letoille
The accentuated white face could suggest a mask?
Kwaw
jmd
Thankyou kwaw... I must admit I have not seriously enough entertained the possibility of the whited face as mask. I will certainly give this more thought, especially in its connection to 'veiled Isis' when I get to the card in the 78 weeks study time... (why assume the veiling is of her body? 
).
But your remark also brought my attention back to what I earlier wrote ('a tendency perhaps 'merely' pointing out the high status of the figure'), which, as a virtual 'side' comment, may be ambiguous to some. During late mediaeval and early renaissance times, it was not unusual for women of very high stations to whiten rather than the more modern equivalent of reddening (applying rouge to) their faces.
I still wonder if that is part of the reason behind this incredible whitening seen in a few cards on, it seems, feminine facial features.
).But your remark also brought my attention back to what I earlier wrote ('a tendency perhaps 'merely' pointing out the high status of the figure'), which, as a virtual 'side' comment, may be ambiguous to some. During late mediaeval and early renaissance times, it was not unusual for women of very high stations to whiten rather than the more modern equivalent of reddening (applying rouge to) their faces.
I still wonder if that is part of the reason behind this incredible whitening seen in a few cards on, it seems, feminine facial features.
Flornoy
LE TOULE - LE TOILLE
Hi Diana,
In the dialect of southwestern France, LE TOULE means a well or spring. Questions about this arise regularly. The two cards accessible by the enclosed link are at the source of the problem: Conver 1760 and 1890. The same woodcuts were used 130 years later (and surely many many times in between), and the block has of course deteriorated. As the raised edge of the woodcut is worn down, the line thickens and is less clear - by examining the earlier print with a magnifying glass, there is no doubt that Conver wrote LE TOILLE.
amitiés,
Jean-Claude
http://letarot.com/pages/62-Le-Toule.htm
Hi Diana,
In the dialect of southwestern France, LE TOULE means a well or spring. Questions about this arise regularly. The two cards accessible by the enclosed link are at the source of the problem: Conver 1760 and 1890. The same woodcuts were used 130 years later (and surely many many times in between), and the block has of course deteriorated. As the raised edge of the woodcut is worn down, the line thickens and is less clear - by examining the earlier print with a magnifying glass, there is no doubt that Conver wrote LE TOILLE.
amitiés,
Jean-Claude
http://letarot.com/pages/62-Le-Toule.htm
kwaw
jmd said:
And even later this 'whitening' was fashionable. Red skin was indicative of peasantry, of having to work out in the sun and weathers depleting effects on the skin. One is also reminded of Queen Elizabeth the First. She started white leadening her skin after a failed engagement and in a time of religious problems. Some have suggested that she did it from religious reasons, to make herself statuesque like, a virgin queen to replace for protestants the vigin mary/mother. She made of herself the feminine divine in the transition from catholic to prostestant, in pursuance of that which her father had started.
Kwaw
Diana
Re: LE TOULE - LE TOILLE
edited
edited
smleite
About the black bird: a crow (or a raven) is an ancient symbol of the virtue Hope. Maybe this has something to do with the raven Noah sent, from the Arch, to find dry land; but the reason generally pointed out by authors is that the crow’s yell sounded like “cras, cras”, or “tomorrow, tomorrow”. Cras is a Latin adverb meaning exactly “tomorrow”, or “for tomorrow”, and it is the root of words like procrastinate, obviously. Because of this, it is also a symbol of the bad habit of procrastinating things – and, in this sense, a raven accompanies one of the fools in the illustrations of The Ship of Fools. But in the Star card, it simply must mean Hope. Many have asked this question already – is the Star a depiction of the virtue of Hope? Anyway, it certainly gives some to whoever gets the card.
jmd
I have at times been somewhat mystified when I reflect on the various possible reasons why the depiction upon the Star is of (undoubtedly related to Aquarius, but) pouring waters from TWO vessels, rather than one.
Even the depiction on the Cary sheet shows this dual pouring (I have given the attachment earlier).
At times, I have considered that this may indicate that the provenance may be to a place when two streams merged - whether literally or metaphorically.
Literally, this has been at times the case. Here I quote from a more recent (January 2004) article in New Times (my emphasis):
More traditionally, and as depicted in various cathedrals, Aquarius is usually depicted with a single vessel from which the waters stream.
Attached is a depiction from a 13th/14th century lead window from the St Etiennes Cathedral in Bourges (France).
Even the depiction on the Cary sheet shows this dual pouring (I have given the attachment earlier).
At times, I have considered that this may indicate that the provenance may be to a place when two streams merged - whether literally or metaphorically.
Literally, this has been at times the case. Here I quote from a more recent (January 2004) article in New Times (my emphasis):
- A venerable old man pouring together water from two jars is depicted on the emblem of Veliky Ustyug. This is not a typical symbol of Russian heraldry. It denotes the rather peculiar geographical position of the town. A little to the south, the last tributary of the Sukhona River, the Yug, flows into it. Several kilometres farther on, the Sukhona empties into the Northern Dvina. And whenever an ice block forms in one of these "bottlenecks", the Sukhona leaps furiously on the town as if protesting against the customary order of things.
Quite recently the town residents have erected a monument to Aquarius who is on the town’s emblem, with the following inscription on the pedestal: "The grey-haired Aquarius is joining the rivers Sukhona and Yug amid groves and fields".
The town was first mentioned in chronicles in the same year as Moscow, that is, in 1147.
More traditionally, and as depicted in various cathedrals, Aquarius is usually depicted with a single vessel from which the waters stream.
Attached is a depiction from a 13th/14th century lead window from the St Etiennes Cathedral in Bourges (France).
Attachments
jmd
Yatima
Catboxer wrote at the beginning of the thread:
"The history of the Star card is spotty. The Visconti-Sforza's version is one of the six pictures done by "the other" artist, and these six are either replacements for lost or damaged originals, or were the emergency products of a decidedly inferior hand, recruited because the original contractor didn't finish the work. In either case, the result is uninspiring -- a full-figure depiction of a woman holding a star in her upraised left hand. The Sun and Moon cards also reproduce the same configuration almost exactly, and taken as a group these three cards suffer from a lack of both vision and originality."
I rather think that the six additions to the Bembo-14 are very interesting instead of being dull because they exhibit (as a whole) a strange unevenness to them. The cosmological subjects, namely, are NOT brought together as a group, but rather were departed and two of them (Star and Moon) were grouped together with Temperance to another subgroup: the three maiden possibly forming a "Triple Goddess"-motif. The Sun and the World were another subgroup, exhibiting putti carrying both the sun and the world (New Jerusalem, as I think); somehow related to also to the two angels of the Judgment. By grouping Temperance with Star and Moon, the three virtues were torn apart as a subgroup they are normally seen or depicted: Fortitude was even denied to be manifested as a female figure referring to the Hercules-myth. So it is really interesting to follow the strange codes of the Bembo-14 and their six additions...
Regarding the Star, we could go with the Tripple Godess-motif (that I will explain somewhere else; but I have referred to it in the thread "Star, Moon, Sun"). John Shephard in his marvellous book “The Tarot Trumps” (1985) has put forward the thesis that the new cards of the Bembo-deck were painted to allow for a semantic transformation from the Charles VI-order the deck might have had before. While the old order (here he draws on Moakley) was shaped after the triumphal tradition, the new one introduced the three worlds of cosmology (regarding the Mantegna Tarot). In this restructuring, this now is the interesting point, not only have been “introduced” all three cards – Star, Moon, Sun – but because of their high similarity they seem to manifest the same essence as three personae, namely the Triple Goddess: Mother of Earth in XIV (Ceres, Diana), the Wanderess between the World and the Hades, Persephone in XVII, and the Moon-Goddess (XVIII). In her threefold character, she stands for the “three ways” (trivia) to earth on the edge of Death in XIV, between Earth and Hades as Star in XVII, thereby being the wife of Hades (XV) and shifting through Hell’s Mouth (XVI). As Moon (XVIII), she finally reunites with the Sun-principle (XIX).
Yatima
"The history of the Star card is spotty. The Visconti-Sforza's version is one of the six pictures done by "the other" artist, and these six are either replacements for lost or damaged originals, or were the emergency products of a decidedly inferior hand, recruited because the original contractor didn't finish the work. In either case, the result is uninspiring -- a full-figure depiction of a woman holding a star in her upraised left hand. The Sun and Moon cards also reproduce the same configuration almost exactly, and taken as a group these three cards suffer from a lack of both vision and originality."
I rather think that the six additions to the Bembo-14 are very interesting instead of being dull because they exhibit (as a whole) a strange unevenness to them. The cosmological subjects, namely, are NOT brought together as a group, but rather were departed and two of them (Star and Moon) were grouped together with Temperance to another subgroup: the three maiden possibly forming a "Triple Goddess"-motif. The Sun and the World were another subgroup, exhibiting putti carrying both the sun and the world (New Jerusalem, as I think); somehow related to also to the two angels of the Judgment. By grouping Temperance with Star and Moon, the three virtues were torn apart as a subgroup they are normally seen or depicted: Fortitude was even denied to be manifested as a female figure referring to the Hercules-myth. So it is really interesting to follow the strange codes of the Bembo-14 and their six additions...
Regarding the Star, we could go with the Tripple Godess-motif (that I will explain somewhere else; but I have referred to it in the thread "Star, Moon, Sun"). John Shephard in his marvellous book “The Tarot Trumps” (1985) has put forward the thesis that the new cards of the Bembo-deck were painted to allow for a semantic transformation from the Charles VI-order the deck might have had before. While the old order (here he draws on Moakley) was shaped after the triumphal tradition, the new one introduced the three worlds of cosmology (regarding the Mantegna Tarot). In this restructuring, this now is the interesting point, not only have been “introduced” all three cards – Star, Moon, Sun – but because of their high similarity they seem to manifest the same essence as three personae, namely the Triple Goddess: Mother of Earth in XIV (Ceres, Diana), the Wanderess between the World and the Hades, Persephone in XVII, and the Moon-Goddess (XVIII). In her threefold character, she stands for the “three ways” (trivia) to earth on the edge of Death in XIV, between Earth and Hades as Star in XVII, thereby being the wife of Hades (XV) and shifting through Hell’s Mouth (XVI). As Moon (XVIII), she finally reunites with the Sun-principle (XIX).
Yatima
Abrac
The woman in trump XVII is Isis, Mother Goddess of ancient Egypt, daughter of Keb(Earth) and Nut(Sky), nourishing the earth with the waters of life. The bird is the Benu Bird which has its origin in Heliopolis. It is the ancestor to the Phoenix. The star itself is Sirius, which the ancient Egyptians honored as Isis. They associated the appearance of Sirius with the annual flooding of the Nile. This card is Faith, Hope, and Love all in one. It does not represent Venus, which I’ve heard many a commentator refer to it as. Technically speaking, Venus is a planet, and is represented as one of the other luminaries.
fools_fool
fools_fool
