Freyja of V
I sit here stunned by all of your knowledge and eloquence.
Huh...I have a LOT to learn. I knew I did but bloody hell.
It's all good. I really enjoy reading and learning about new things. So, I'm up for it, but it seem so overwhelming.
I do actually understand what you are saying about the descent of energy through the manifestation in the 10, but I was trying to say that the Swords don't seem to follow the same pattern as the other suits do. For instance, I can see the progression in the 2,3,4 and 5. But then the 6,7 seem misplaced. Does that make sense?
Anyway...
The next thing I was going to begin learning was Astrology, but now I am having second thoughts. In this thread, the Qabbalah was talked about the most.
If I were to start learning about the Qabbalah, where you recommend I begin?
I do actually understand what you are saying about the descent of energy through the manifestation in the 10, but I was trying to say that the Swords don't seem to follow the same pattern as the other suits do. For instance, I can see the progression in the 2,3,4 and 5. But then the 6,7 seem misplaced. Does that make sense?
Good question. I started with Dion Fortune's Mystical Qabalah. Some recommend Lon Milo DuQuette's Chicken Qabalah but I'm not familiar with it. He's a bit too "pop culture" for me, but he seems to know his stuff. I like the old ways.
Real symbols belong to the collective unconscious of Man. If they are elements of a coded language, they actually can no longer be called symbols, they become signs.
Jung said:whether a thing is a symbol or not depends chiefly on the 'attitude' of the observing consciousness; for instance, on whether it regards a given fact not merely as such but also as an expression for something unknown.Hence, it is quite possible for a man to establish a fact which does not appear in the least symbolic to himself, but is profoundly so to another consciousness.The converse is also true[\QUOTE]
(I have just been away and my eyes are wobbling, so may have this wrong- my gist of what Crowley is saying is that organisation of symbolic ideas help with our differing perceptions,so that we can have more chance of being able to have a shared communication with each other
There's a rather notorious past thread in which just these questions are dealt with here.
Certainly one of the more fascinating threads, but for me the answer is that the Thoth Tarot is inseparable from the Book of Thoth, and Crowley himself said this many times. He feared that without the book the deck would deteriorate into "fortune telling" and the like. He was not talking only of the way people read, but prophetically pointing at things that have indeed happened. For example, in her book Angeles Arrien calls the pelican on the Empress a swan. Now, I could make up meanings for the Empress that included the swan, and justify them with all kinds of esoteric jargon but the fact is that it isn't one, and anyone receiving their introduction from Arrien wouldn't get simply an "alternative" approach, but a wrong one based on false assumptions.
But the Book of Thoth itself is only the "outer veil," the real essence of the deck is Thelema, which again many authors from Arrien to Zeigler just put aside as you would a bone in a fish. But Thelema is the fish, not some inconsequential byproduct. This, this, is what differentiates the deck from any other and makes it Aleister Crowley's Thoth Tarot, an illustrated commentary on the Book of Law. Take that away, and you've got a bunch of nice pictures.
Chapter III: Hieroglyphics: Life and Language Necessarily Symbolic
I have Bill Butler's Dictionary of the Tarot which takes a similar approach. But the best example of multiple-deck comparison, at least for the purpose here, is Robert Wang's Qabalistic Tarot. It compares the TdM, the RWS, the Thoth and the Regardie/Wang collaborative Golden Dawn deck. It's advantage is summed up in the title, especially if the intent is to pursue the more esoteric side of things. I highly recommend it.
Is it true that Butler's book focusses on the Thoth, as another poster suggested in this thread?
Zephyros; said:I do recommend buying the Book of Thoth even though you can find it online at Hermetic Texts. However, try not to gloss over anything. Sometimes he adds a note that more information can be found in such and such of his own books, other times he points you to some ritual or the other, or some vision he had. Even if you don't understand what he's talking about, make a go of it because it's important, these notes sometimes contain the real gist of what a card is all about.
For example there's this whole thing with Cain and Abel on the Lovers and the reason why and their interpretation is in The Vision and the Voice.