Let´s talk about nudity...

To support my quote here with some "evidence":

Cat* said:

I would also like to point out that "nudity" in the sense of visible female nipples (because let's face it, this is what it boils down to in most cases, right?) is very much a non-issue where I live. Which is to say that a lot of the nudity issues are culturally-specific.

I'd totally use a deck with a few naked female breasts in it to read for a minor or for my almost 70-year-old mother (assuming the deck wasn't emphatically "sexy" in general, and also assuming the nudity made some sort of sense in terms of the card meaning). I figure if similar images/poses can also be seen in what is generally considered "classic pieces of fine art," it's fine to use for all ages...

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I just re-read one of my old children's books yesterday (Astrid Lindgren's "Ronja Räubertochter"/"Ronia the Robber's Daughter") and found that among the many illustrations it has one ink drawings of a woman breastfeeding a baby with one of her nipples showing, and one of a group of naked men frolicking about in the snow (the attachments depict exactly that, so don't view them if not legally of age and/or if offended by such imagery). I don't think it did me any harm to see such pictures at a young age, but you're of course free to form an opinion of my sanity by yourselves.

WolfSpirit said:

I think a male nude can also show vulnerability.

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Yes. And a female nude can also show power, fearlessness, and aggression.

WolfSpirit said:

I was thinking of this...one of my favourite cards is the Star card in the Druidcraft tarot, which is a beautiful naked woman, and I think the reason this card works for me is that she looks peaceful and serene and at ease with herself.

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The DruidCraft's Star is a case in point of female nudity looking fearless. She obviously feels safe enough out there, alone, at night, to be naked. (And it being the Star, I don't think this is the stereotypical horror movie scene two minutes before the psychopath killer comes to punish her for all that trust in her safety in the world... Know what I mean?)

Wolfspirit said:

I was thinking of this...one of my favourite cards is the Star card in the Druidcraft tarot, which is a beautiful naked woman, and I think the reason this card works for me is that she looks peaceful and serene and at ease with herself. Her pose is not provocative, because there is noone there to provoke - as far as she knows.
The card would have been totally spoilt if she had looked at us and pouted.

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Le Fanu said:

Yes. I agree. Plus the fact that somehow, the artist has managed to integrate her into the landscape. She is definitely a part of nature in all its forms and contours. I have no special urge to look at naked women in tarot cards, but this is one of the few cards where one looks beyond the body somehow at her presence as a part of the landscape. As part of the whole. I love this card.

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I guess some of this depends on the deck you have. My main objections to the star come from the Robin Wood Tarot. She doesn't look alone and at ease, nor does she appear to be a part of the environment. She looks posed, like she knows we're watching her, so that's where I came up with 'provocative' in my last post. I suppose I should have clarified that. On the other hand, the Guilded tarot star card does have the features the two of you mention, and I like it better, though it also shows less than the Robin Wood cards does, so... What I'm trying to say, is that in that case, I guess it comes down to the deck you have and your own personal oppinion.

Well, I guess this whole discussion comes down to personal opinions, doesn't it?

Okay, so here's a thought that just came to me randomly while I was getting ready for work, and it's sort of connected to the topic at hand, so I didn't think it pertinent to start a new thread... anyway.

If the nudity in the cards is supposed to represent freedom and being at ease with one's appearence, being comfortable with yourself exactly the way you were made... then why do all the women always have shaved legs?

Just a thought. Random. Unimportant. lol

Amashelle said:

If the nudity in the cards is supposed to represent freedom and being at ease with one's appearence, being comfortable with yourself exactly the way you were made... then why do all the women always have shaved legs?

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ROFLMAO! Thank God I found someone who has loved me in all my changing sizes and conditions!

Ok, when I read this thread on friday, it had 5 pages with 180 posts, and now it only has 3 pages with 113 posts! WTF??? Am I hallucinating??

A fascinating discussion that has covered almost every angle, so the only thing I'd like to add is echoing Ricardo's question: how to go about creating an equal-nudity Tarot? Who should be naked and why?

Then I looked at my RWS deck: nudity appears in

- the Lovers (man and woman - and while the man looks at the woman, the woman looks only at the angel. I know the usual interpretation for the arrangement, but in the context of this discussion I wonder if it doesn't also depict societies expectations: men are allowed to look at naked women, but women shouldn't find pleasure in looking at naked male bodies, they should concentrate on "higher" ideals, thus preserving their "purity").

- the Devil (male and female demon)

- the Star (woman)

- the Sun (child, but usually identified as male)

- Judgment (man, woman, child)

- The World (hermaphrodite)

Seems balanced to me. Of course, this deck is completely sterile when it comes to erotic appeal

I have no problems with nudity, be it male or female bodies, but I fail to see the relevance of eroticism (is that a word? I'm too lazy to look it up) in a Tarot deck. Nudity can symbolize a number of things, like true essence in the Star or sexual awakening in the Lovers, but I don't expect my cards to be erotically stimulating, anymore than I'd expect it from a coffee machine.

tigerlily said:

Ok, when I read this thread on friday, it had 5 pages with 180 posts, and now it only has 3 pages with 113 posts! WTF??? Am I hallucinating??.

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It says that your post was made 19 minutes ago and I have 12 pp listed....I don't know how that can be either.

tigerlily said:

I have no problems with nudity, be it male or female bodies, but I fail to see the relevance of eroticism (is that a word? I'm too lazy to look it up) in a Tarot deck. Nudity can symbolize a number of things, like true essence in the Star or sexual awakening in the Lovers, but I don't expect my cards to be erotically stimulating, anymore than I'd expect it from a coffee machine.

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I can only speak for myself but for me the relevance of erotic decks is their usefulness in answering erotic questions. I don't generally use them for any other kinds of questions. But for somethinng like when you know you will soon make love with someone for the first time and you're curious to know what it will be like with them, or want to know what the cards can tell you about that part of them beforehand that will help make the experience the best it can be, or questions like what someone's thoughts about you are in that area of your life...those are the kinds of decks that, to me, answer those kinds of questions best. Just my thoughts in that.

Babs

cardlady22 said:

ROFLMAO! Thank God I found someone who has loved me in all my changing sizes and conditions!

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why do they all have to be soo 'perky' and usually white?

in romantic readings i think that erotic decks can be useful, the RWS is not as good as capturing the essence of some situations

nudity also conveys sometimes how you feel, the king of swords in the sensual wiccan deck shows perfectly how you can feel in someones presense

SunChariot said:

It says that your post was made 19 minutes ago and I have 112 pp listed....I don't know how that can be either.

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I am aching to join in but this connection.....

HOWEVER - I saved this thread late last week, so I could read it off line and put a post together - and honestly, it does not seem to have changed; I just saved it again, to see. I suspect some glitch like the one that shows me and others with 65 thousand unread PMs, that Solandia is working on.....

tigerlily said:

Nudity can symbolize a number of things, like true essence in the Star or sexual awakening in the Lovers, but I don't expect my cards to be erotically stimulating, anymore than I'd expect it from a coffee machine.

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Tigerlily you should have seen the ad for coffee we had here ! (suggesting coffee is nothing less than an aphrodisiac )
Now where was I...yeah I don't expect a deck to be erotically stimulating either, I have a few decks that are good at reading people and their relationships, of every kind.

I'm not sure if I've written this before (no time to check the thread), so forgive me if I'm repeating myself here.

I think that erotic imagery (possibly but not necessarily including nudity) can serve as a symbolic language just like, say, religious imagery can. This doesn't work for everyone, and it certainly doesn't have to. It does work for me, though, which is why I can read with an erotic deck on a multitude of topics. I simply understand the "language" of the deck in question. It doesn't even matter much in terms of my reading abilities if I find the images erotically stimulating myself or not.

Not that there's anything wrong with getting erotic pleasure out of a tarot deck, mind you. Sure, you can get erotic stimulation elsewhere, too, but reading tarot with your favorite adult magazine/video/book might be a little difficult - so there's nothing wrong with going for the multipurpose item!