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Minderwiz  Minderwiz is offline
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Rulers of the Places and Lots - Triplicity Rulers Of The Sect Light


The chart is nocturnal so the Sect Light is the Moon. The Moon is in the Eleventh Place, in Sagittarius, so its Triplicity Rulers are Jupiter and The Sun with Saturn as the co-operating ruler. The Triplicity of Aries, Leo, Sagittarius is a diurnal one, indeed the most diurnal one, so this weakens the placing of the Moon compared with being in the Earth or Water Triplicities. However both Jupiter and the Sun are in angular places, with Jupiter in the Ascendant and the Sun in the fourth or Subterranean Place.

These placements suggest stability, fortune and possibly eminence, though of a moderate nature, because of the Sect placements. It is reduced still further, as Saturn is the co-operating ruler and is in a declining place, the Twelfth and reduced even more in the first part of life as Saturn is Jupiterís domicile ruler and is itself badly placed. Valens hints that such a placement of the domicile ruler can undo the good placement of the Triplicity Lord.

The Sunís domicile ruler is Venus, which is placed in a post Ascensional, or Succedent Place. So the second part of life should be a little more stable and fortunate than the first.

Saturnís domicile ruler is itself, and it is in a decline or cadent place. Saturn is not a triplicity lord for the Earth Triplicity, so it is not even in its own Triplicity (which is the case for Jupiter, as it is the co-operating ruler for the Air Triplicity).

Valens uses the Triplicity Lords along with other techniques, so itís important to realise that the Domicile Ruler of the Hour Marker, and the two Lots have to be considered and integrated. The Lots of Basis and Exaltation may also indicate mitigating factors when reaching a conclusion of the overall status of the nativity.

So far I have looked at the Domicle Lord of the Ascendant and the two lots in the previous posts. This post has covered the Triplicity rulers. Iím not sure whether the Lots of Basis and Exaltation are needed because of the good placement of the Triplicity Lords (apart from Saturn) but I will briefly mention them.

The Lot of Basis is calculated as:

Ascendant + Fortune - Spirit

So itís value depends on the two Lots that have already been covered. In this case the Lot of Basis lies in Taurus at just under 12 degrees and is conjunct with the Sun at 13 degrees 32 and Mercury at 16 degrees. It is Angular and ruled by the Benefic of Sect, though Venus is squared by Saturn. This lot is used to support the general happiness and prosperity of the native. If it connects with the Lots of Spirit and Fortune and their rulers then that is testimony to support happiness and prosperity. In this case Basis connects to by Trine to the Lot of Spirit and it is conjunct Mercury (which rules both lots) but it is averse to the Lot of Fortune, being in the twelfth place relative to it. This seems to be positive testimony but not at the highest level. Still it is better than being indifferent or even showing a negative connection.

The Lot of Exaltation is calculated as:

Ascendant + Exaltation degree of the Sect Light - Sect Light, or in this case:

Ascendant + 3 degrees Taurus - Moon

This Lot is placed at 16 degrees Gemini, in the Fifth Place and being ruled by Mercury. It is in a Post Ascensional or Succedent place, and therefore is in a moderate situation relative to the Ascendant. It is averse to the Lot of Basis but is co-present with the Lot of Fortune, which is a good sign and squares the Lot of Spirit (being in a Ninth Place relationship to it. It is averse to Mercury which rules both Lots and is sextile to Venus, which rules the Lot of Basis. Again this seems to be marginally positive, though as Basis depends on Fortune and Spirit, then it may be neutral or slightly positive rather than strongly positive.

Overall these techniques suggest that there are positive factors that mitigate the effect of Satun as the Domicile Ruler of the Ascendant. This now allows me to move on to those topics requested.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
The Lot of Fortune

... It lies in Gemini in the fifth Place. It is therefore ruled by Mercury. The two Places that are the subject of the topical analysis are the Tenth Place (Career) and the Fourth Place (Home and Family). Both these places are important ones in the chart but both are averse to the Lot itself. Mercury is configured to the Tenth by an Opposition and is situated in the Fourth Place. So aversion of the Lot to the Places is, at least in part, balanced by the Lot ruler being configured to both places.

Mercury is configured to the Ascendant, as is the Lot, so according to Schmidtís nautical metaphor, Mercury should be able to see the opportunities and threats coming and therefore indicate that you are not constantly reacting to things but can plan ahead. Iím not sure how much this will be reduced by Mercuryís current phase of being under the beams but everything else for Mercury is quite positive. So Iím suggesting that it might not perform to what it should do if unhampered by the beams but it will still yield a positive signification.
I am certainly open to the fact that parts of this are accurate but I still question if the time is accurate. The middle paragraphs are not going to change regardless. The first paragraph about the lot would be totally different if I were actually born 10 minutes later. The last paragraph is so off the mark that my suspicions are amplified. I am constantly reacting to things and I do not see opportunities or threats clearly. Whether this is due to other areas of the chart or being under the beams I do not know but it is not accurate. I do wish it were.

Maybe you could look at a couple of the events with ZR to see if they fit the 2AM time or if they fit a bit later better. I think that the ZR would be totally different because of the sign change.

I am trying to digest the Spirit part but it would change also.
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Mercury's condition might be the answer


Thanks for your feedback.

My issue, as I said in the post, was the extent to which Mercury under the beams offsets the positive placement according to Schmidt's Nautical Metaphor. I think what is wrong is my conclusion that something positive must remain (i.e. the metaphor is stronger) rather than take what I would have described in a horary is an inability to see things coming. From your description, that is what in fact happens and I think the state of being under the beams outweights the metaphor, possibly by quite a lot. I posted that I had doubts about the accuracy of the metaphor earlier, and I think that has been substantiated.

As Mercury also rules Spirit, the same thing should apply there. The Lot itself is badly placed in the eighth though Mercury trines it. So that would suggest that your attempted actions also tend to be too little or too late, or you have difficulty in seeing what needs doing. So let me know how that fits.

If we advance your birth time ten minutes, the Moon takes over as ruler of the Lot of Fortune. The is well placed in the eleventh. That is not as strong a position as the fourth but it is reasonable and sextiles the Ascendant. The Moon would also be averse to the Lot of Fortune in Cancer, so there's some difficulty there but no worse than Mercury being averse to the Gemini Lot. The Moon is averse to both malefics, and sextiles Jupiter. There's no question of the Moon being under the beams, though it is just past the Full Moon, in Scorpio, which proceeded your birth, so the Moon is now waning, though still bright.

Venus would take over as ruler of the Lot of Spirit, which is now in Libra and would be in an opposition to the Lot. Now placed in the ninth, the Lot would trine the Ascendant and be in a very close applying trine to Saturn, the Ascendant ruler, though by Sign it would still be a square. Either way it is now configured to the Ascendant ruler as well as the Ascendant. The downside is the overcoming Square between Saturn and Venus which might well greatly weaken that, otherwise strong, configuration.

To me Mercury looks the better bet as ruler of Fortune, which would also make it ruler of the Lot of Spirit, given your description. I agree, though, that it might well be worth looking at the ZR data to see which fits better. So I think we skip the topics for the time being and look at those next.

Incidently the change in Lot rulerships would not affect the Triplicity Rulers of the Sect Light, nor would it affect the Lot of exaltation in terms of calculation but it would configure that Lot to Spirit, Venus and the Moon, though not to Fortune.

The Lot of Basis would not change sign or ruler, though its configuration to Fortune would change to a sextile. It would now no longer be configured to the ruler of Fortune (the Moon) or to the Lot of Spirit or to Spirit's ruler, nor to the Lot of Exaltation but it would be configured to its ruler.

So rather than speculate too much let's look at those ZR events.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minderwiz View Post
The Lot of Spirit

This Lot indicates your ability to influence the world around you through your own actions. ... The Lot of Spirit became associated with career and public actions because this is the main way that you can influence how well you do throughout your life. This Lot will therefore be of particular importance for the topic of career.
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Is this a general statement or specific to my chart?
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Quote:
The Lot lies in Virgo in the Eighth Place. .... All of these configurations will be favourable to some extent and certainly will not be unfavourable. This also means that the Lot of Spirit is configured to the Fourth Place in a favourable way, so it should indicate positive actions by you in building a home and family (and indeed the corresponding real estate).
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So the eighth (if it is indeed there) is not well placed but the configurations are favorable? Positive actions ... in building a home and family? Well, I am currently in an apartment and my wife's children all move away about 20 years ago. I have the skillset to build a home but lack the resources currently. My family consist of myself and my partner of 30 years. If I don't become less dense that could be in jeopardy also.
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Quote:
The remaining aspects are a square from the Moon in the eleventh but this is an inferior square. Iíd like some feedback on how far friends and/or sponsors (for example customers in your career) helped or hindered the situation by their actions or created and difficulties when it came to your own attempts to assert yourself, through career or social actions. Iím certainly not sure they would act in this way but it is a possible interpretation of difficulties. At least if they didnít cause issues, I can write that one off. The Moon also rules the twelfth place and as this features in my next comment, Iíll deal with it there.
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This is an area that is fraught with trouble. When I was doing home repair customers would like me enough to treat me like family. However that had the downside that it also made it so they thought I should do extra work and charge less than someone else. When I was not doing extra they resented that. For some reason when it came down to writing checks for my work they thought I should give them a break even though there was no question if they paid the HVAC guy or the plumber. This was not 100% of the time but more than would be expected.
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Quote:
The last aspect to the Lot of Spirit comes from Saturn which trines the Lot from the twelfth house. Saturn is the Out of Sect Malefic, as well as being the Ascendant ruler. The aspect is not a threatening one, so it may be that Saturn has little effect here. However, as I have identified Saturn as you being your own worst enemy, in certain circumstances (your actions make things worse), I was wondering if you had any examples of that from a career perspective or where you have tried to act in a socially responsible way but got it wrong. As the Moon rules the Twelfth, it is possible that the square from the Moon to Spirit might signify the actions of enemies or Ďslavesí (employees, or someone simply helping out) which made things worse.
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Mostly I made things worse by not being the best at estimating costs. My work quality was always good but my estimates were usually for best case and that rarely happens in construction. Another way I made things worse was getting in too much like family as stated above.
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I would have to say that this lot fits a little better than fortune did but seems a bit positive due to the fact that I don't seem to be able to have that positive of an influence so far. This may be due to me being too focused and not seeing the broader picture or what is coming.
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Minderwiz 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeiifA View Post
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Is this a general statement or specific to my chart?
It's general and applies to all nativity charts

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeiifA
So the eighth (if it is indeed there) is not well placed but the configurations are favorable? Positive actions ... in building a home and family? Well, I am currently in an apartment and my wife's children all move away about 20 years ago. I have the skillset to build a home but lack the resources currently. My family consist of myself and my partner of 30 years. If I don't become less dense that could be in jeopardy also.
Yes, the eighth is not a favourable place. But the configurations are rather favourable, as the Lot of Spirit is angular to the Lot of Fortune, which Valens sees as being positive (though it would be better actually with the Lot of Fortune or in the tenth place from it.) However the eighth place relative to the Ascendant is not doing it any favours at all and if I have to reduce the effectiveness of Mercury in relation to Fortune because it is under the beams (within 15 degrees of the Sun), then I have to apply the same to Spirit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeiifA
This is an area that is fraught with trouble. When I was doing home repair customers would like me enough to treat me like family. However that had the downside that it also made it so they thought I should do extra work and charge less than someone else. When I was not doing extra they resented that. For some reason when it came down to writing checks for my work they thought I should give them a break even though there was no question if they paid the HVAC guy or the plumber. This was not 100% of the time but more than would be expected.


Interesting,

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeiifA
Mostly I made things worse by not being the best at estimating costs. My work quality was always good but my estimates were usually for best case and that rarely happens in construction. Another way I made things worse was getting in too much like family as stated above.
That might be because your second house of finance is ruled by Jupiter Retrograde in your first and also the second house opposes your Lot of Spirit (assuming the Lot is in the eighth and not the ninth)
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LeiifA  LeiifA is offline
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Another way


Another way I have created problems for myself is by trusting people or trusting what they say is true. I have gone through much of my life under the false belief that most people are truthful.

I don't know if its because the world is changing or that I have just run into more dishonest people in the last 10 years or so but my outlook has changed. I still have a hard time not believing what someone says but the examples of untruthfulness have been hitting me hard of late.
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Minderwiz 
Zodiacal Releasing - The Car Accident.


Introduction and Background

As a first test of whether the Cancer or the Gemini Lot of Fortune is more 'accurate' as a descriptor of life events, I'll look the car accident. You gave me the date and time of the accident so there shouldn't be a problem due to an uncertain date/time.

Fortune is the appropriate Lot because it is related to your body and physical well being. It describes the 'slings and arrows of outrageous fortune' to quote Hamlet.

Zodiacal Releasing starts from the sign of the Lot, which if we begin with the Cancer Lot is obviously Cancer. Cancer is ruled by the Moon. which has a minimum period of 25 years. So the first 25 years of your life, this forms the backdrop to events. The Moon rules the sixth place, so the sixth house is always active, as is the eleventh place where the Moon resides. This can be seen as a backdrop or the background noise of your life. It's important to point out that the 'year' here derived from the Egyptian Year, of360 days, with some adjustments. so it's not a perfect match for our calendar. The entire 25 'year period thus ended on Christmas Eve December 1985. This of course holds for both possible Lot placements.

The second point is that the timings generated are in Universal Time/GMT so I will have to make allowances for the time difference at your location.

The Months, Weeks and Days periods form lower levels of the ZR Process, so the first Month/Wee/Day were all Cancer days but soon the lower levels shift to different signs, and therefore different rulers. So Whilst the Moon sets the tone and is always there in the background, the day ruler might be an entirely different planet and different in turn to the week or month ruler. Life is constantly changing and your experiences are constantly changing. The number of months, weeks, or days that the planet rules is determined by its own minor period, and I've listed these earlier on in the thread.

ZR leading up to the event

Now there's a principle with ZR that if the cycle returns to the same Sign (and this is not always the case) there is a Loosing of the Bond. The next period becomes the opposite sign, not the next in sequence. This continues till the end of the original planets time lordship, There's some debate about the exact nature of this moment. Whether it is a complete change and another planet takes over or whether it is a colouring of what happens next - that is the original planet still has a role to play but that role is coloured by the significant change that has taken place.

There's a relevant example which occurs in September 1978 when the full twelve signs have played a Level 2 role. The next period is not a second L2 for Cancer but a new cycle that starts at Capricorn and is ruled by Saturn. Moreover Saturn sees through the remainder of the Cancer L1 period. As Capricorn is your twelfth house and as Saturn is the out of sect malefic, I would expect the tone of this period to darken at least in terms of the background.

The accident

It is during this Capricorn L1 period that the car accident occured. The date of the accident occured during a L2 period ruled by Leo, your seventh house. That doesn't seem to be something related to accidents but the L3 Period is Sagittarius activating the eleventh (in which the Moon is placed) and the L4 period is Cancer, activating the sixth house. The sixth relates to ill health and contains Mars, which has signification for accidents and wounds. That L4 period began two days earlier and had another two days to run. So there is a period of vulnerability of about 5 days.

The Time Lords bring together the twelfth Place (where you are your own enemy) and immediately the Sixth house of ill health, possibly due to a Mars type event. The other backgrounds relate to relationships and friends. You had just been attending a party!

To tie down to an astrological signature, I need to look at the transits of the planets and houses that are activated, particularly the Moon as the ruler of the immediate time period. Without a time for the accident I'd be trawling through looking for the most likely possibilities but here I know the time and the date.
So it I take the time you gave and adjust it for UT I find that at the time you quoted, the transiting Moon is in Aries (ruled by Mars) and at 25 Aries 53 is about to make an opposition to Mercury at 26 Libra 01.

What is the significance? The Moon is Lord 6, she rules the house of ill health. Mercury rules Virgo, your eight house, which amongst other things is associated with death. Lord 6 applying to a close opposition to Lord 8 indicates a real chance of death.

At the same moment, transiting Mars was just separating from a conjunction to your natal Moon by a degree. If it had been applying rather than separating, I don't think you would be here now. Remember your natal Moon is in Sagittarius and Sagittarius is an active place at this time.

Incidentally, Saturn was also at 26 Libra, some 43 minutes passed the conjunction. You had a clear hand in creating the event.

My feeling is that this almost perfectly describes the situation and the event

You might also look back and ask if you can detect any changes in the background of life from September 1978 onwards. Things not quite working out well. But remember it's the average you are looking at, good time can and do occur.

Edited to Add:

You gave the time as 7 AM. That leads to the same question you asked about your birth time. How accurate is it?

The Moon Mercury conjunction occurred at: 7:14 AM

The Moon Saturn conjunction occurred at 8:25 AM so you seem to have just missed the real danger period.
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Car accident with the Gemini Lot


Clearly the accident occured at the same date and time so what I really need to do is look at the active periods.

In this case the Releasing begins from Gemini, but by the beginning of 1981 the Level 1 period moved into Cancer, so sixth house is active and so is the Moon as the ruler. By the time of the accident you were in a L2 Capricorn period (Saturn and the twelfth active) and a Leo L3 (relationships and other people). The Level 4 period was Scorpio, relating to Work and activates the tenth and Mars.

Mars does conjoin natal Moon as previously stated and through the L1 Cancer period the Moon is active and the sixth is active.

This could also explain the accident, astrologically as all the aspects still hold. It's a close call between the two. I think I tend towards the Cancer Lot, simply because the Cancer period is immediate to the accident - only a five day window. And the Sagittarius period brings in friends and so a party, whereas the Gemini Lot brings in work. Now I know from what you've said that the party involved work colleagues so that does narrow the gap but doesn't close it entirely.

But, and its a big 'But', this is one event in your life. We really need to look at several more to see if there is a more pronounced difference between the Lots. I'll do one more event, which has reasonable timing but that still allows some error room.
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Quote:
... indicates a real chance of death.

At the same moment, transiting Mars was just separating from a conjunction to your natal Moon by a degree. If it had been applying rather than separating, I don't think you would be here now. Remember your natal Moon is in Sagittarius and Sagittarius is an active place at this time.
I slammed into a power pole head-on. The impact broke the pole about 10 ft up and at ground level. The part still attached swung back into the car and hit the windshield. I was literally only inches from being killed.

Quote:
Incidentally, Saturn was also at 26 Libra, some 43 minutes passed the conjunction. You had a clear hand in creating the event.

My feeling is that this almost perfectly describes the situation and the event
Certainly it was my fault, both the accident and the drinking that led to it. I concur that it does describe the event.

Quote:
You might also look back and ask if you can detect any changes in the background of life from September 1978 onwards. Things not quite working out well. But remember it's the average you are looking at, good time can and do occur.
There was a change. That would have been my last year of High School and there was a difference as I had a job and quit sports to go to work.

Quote:
The Moon Mercury conjunction occurred at: 7:14 AM

The Moon Saturn conjunction occurred at 8:25 AM so you seem to have just missed the real danger period.
By 7:14 the police would have shown up and I could barely talk due to the accident as my mouth was severely impacted. By 8:25 I would have been at the hospital, having blood taken and being "arrested" even though I was released to seek dental emergency help. Both very fitting to the actual events.

It certainly seems that the Cancer Fortune and Libra Spirit seem to fit better than 2 Mercury positions.

Thank You for the effort you have put into this.

Edited to add: Saturn would also be related to the broken teeth
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Did my comments ... and


Hi Minderwiz,

Did my comments add enough for you to move forward or do you need more details?

And on another note I would like to know if you could clarify an aspect of Hellenistic methods that can be confusing? The explanations of the attributes of Dexter and Sinister seem a bit perplexing. I have read articles by D. Houlding and several others that are either missing something or not completely clear.

Could you elaborate on your understanding of this topic and then I will ask for clarity if needed?

Thank you, be well
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