78 ? ? ?

jumptothemoonyea

This is a very old new question:

  • Does Tarot mean 78? And everything which is not 78, is not Tarot?

  • Or maybe Tarot is not related to number of cards, but a method?

  • How many cards would you like Tarot deck to have? Why? (Assuming it is still called Tarot ;))
 

Fulgour

78+

1,124,727,000,777,607,680,000
According to Giorgio Tavaglione, that is the precise number
of possible combinations for just the 22 Major Arcana alone.
 

Psychebleu

jumptothemoonyea said:
This is a very old new question:

  • Does Tarot mean 78? And everything which is not 78, is not Tarot?

  • Or maybe Tarot is not related to number of cards, but a method?

  • How many cards would you like Tarot deck to have? Why? (Assuming it is still called Tarot ;))
Click to expand...


I think tarot and other oracle decks are usefd in the same way so I don't think it's about method. 'Tarot' is structure, so yes, it's 78 - 22 major arcana with each representing common concepts/archetypes - if these are drastically altered - it's no longer Tarot, 56 minor, 4 suits, 16 courts. Anything else is and oracle deck. I use oracle decks, but would not change the traditional tarot.
 

Emeraldgirl

I think that tarot is 78 cards. 22 major arcana 56 minor arcana of 16 courts and 40 suit or pip cards (scenic or not). Anything else I would classify as an oracle. However there are exceptions to every rule and there are theories of extra cards out there making an 80 card deck. I think they also fall under the title of tarot as the rest of the deck remains the same.

As to how many cards I'd like a deck to have. i am happy with the 78 we have now. If we had more or removed some it could end up very confusing :)
 

jumptothemoonyea

Thank you for your input Fulgour, Psychebleu and Emeraldgirl.

I think 78 is a historical tradition, grown into Spiritual body of energy, we all connected to. It is like an infinity of space delineated by 78 border. A structure, an island in the original chaos.

Being myself very comfortable with 78 structure, I do believe number do not matter. Whatever number of keys would be selected to read, The Divine Universe would use them to send it's message. Every card has in itself all Universe in condensed form. 5 or 35 or 78 or 365 cards in a deck, would say the same things to someone who understands.
 

leftovercrizack

Fulgour said:
1,124,727,000,777,607,680,000
According to Giorgio Tavaglione, that is the precise number
of possible combinations for just the 22 Major Arcana alone.
Click to expand...
"Alone the combination possibilities of seven cards drawn from seventy eight is 2,641,902,120 which approximatley equals the number of seconds in a life of eighty four years. When the additional factor of these seven cards being laid in seven distinct postions is considered than there are 13,315,586,684,800 combinations."
-Hajo Banzhaf
 

lukedra

can another mathamatician check the 22 majours number. I gotta be able to do these types of questions for shool in my up comming tests and I am getting an answer of 1.124000728x10^21 which is close but not exact and I'm wondering if I am doing something wrong. I am getting the same numbers for the 7 cards out of 78 though.
 

Fulgour

English Major

lukedra said:
can another mathamatician check the 22 majours number.
Click to expand...
To factor the total number of possible combinations
for twenty-two of something (anything?) it goes...

1x1= 1
2x1= 2
3x2= 6
4x6= 24
5x24= 120
6x120= 720
7x720= 5,040
etc., up to
22x...

*

But I've always wondered what the "equation" would
look like, you know, 10 to the power of or something?
 

elancl

Fulgour said:
To factor the total number of possible combinations
for twenty-two of something (anything?) it goes...

1x1= 1
2x1= 2
3x2= 6
4x6= 24
5x24= 120
6x120= 720
7x720= 5,040
etc., up to
22x...

*

But I've always wondered what the "equation" would
look like, you know, 10 to the power of or something?
Click to expand...

What Fulgour writes is 22! (22 Factorial). It is actually the total number of 22 card spreads one could do. (The idea of a 22 card spread makes my head spin...)

http://www.mathwords.com/f/factorial.htm
http://www.mathwords.com/p/permutation_formula.htm Permutations is when the order matters. That is to say Death, Tower, Devil is not the same draw as Tower, Devil, Death.
http://www.mathwords.com/c/combination_formula.htm Combinations is when order doesn't matter. That is Death, Tower, Devil is considered the same as Tower, Devil, Death.

So if we want to know how many different 7 card draws there are out of 22 cards, and I'm pretty sure we'd all agree that order DOES matter, the formula is 22!/15! = 859,541,760.

If we really want to know what the total number of possible permutations from a 22 card deck [combinations in the quote before is wrong in mathematical terminology, since order DOES matter in draws], we'd have to sum up all of the possible spreads from 1 card spreads to the 22 card spreads.

22 card spreads 22!/0! = 1,124,000,727,777,607,680,000
21 card spreads 22!/1! = 1,124,000,727,777,607,680,000
20 card spreads 22!/2! = 562,000,363,888,803,840,000
19 card spreads 22!/3! = 187,333,454,629,601,280,000
18 card spreads 22!/4! = 46,833,363,657,400,320,000
17 card spreads 22!/5! = 9,366,672,731,480,064,000
16 card spreads 22!/6! = 1,561,112,121,913,344,000
15 card spreads 22!/7! = 223,016,017,416,192,000
14 card spreads 22!/8! = 27,877,002,177,024,000
13 card spreads 22!/9! = 3,097,444,686,336,000
12 card spreads 22!/10! = 309,744,468,633,600
11 card spreads 22!/11! = 28,158,588,057,600
10 card spreads 22!/12! = 2,346,549,004,800
9 card spreads 22!/13! = 180,503,769,600
8 card spreads 22!/14! = 12,893,126,400
7 card spreads 22!/15! = 859,541,760
6 card spreads 22!/16! = 53,721,360
5 card spreads 22!/17! = 3,160,080
4 card spreads 22!/18! = 175,560
3 card spreads 22!/19! = 9,240
2 card spreads 22!/20! = 462
1 card spreads 22!/21! = 22

The grand total of this is 3,055,350,753,492,663,521,764.

(Yes, I'm a math geek, and probability and statistics was my favorite course. I could write a whole other epic on the probability of any given draw occuring, but I don't want to }) )

E. (who really hopes she doesn't get timed out of her login this time and have to type this all for a third time)
 
question tarot: offensive