Anne Boleyn: Guilty or Innocent.

[DownUnderNZer]

Blue Owl: Focus card - WOMAN.

What was she really like as in personality or character etc?

Anchor Tree WOMAN Mice Sun





POSITIVE: Stable, sound mind, loyal, spiritual, analytical, ambitious, reliable, energetic, and an achiever.

NEGATIVE: Anxious, nagger, pessimistic, an over achiever or too ambitious.

PHYSICAL: Likely to have had blonde hair and fair skin. (Looked and there are blonde and brunette images of Anne Boleyn...interesting ).

Maybe, not that anyone would have seen, a good pair of hips on her.


So, really a bit of an all rounder. However, if she was indeed a nagger, anxious, and stressed then likely someone that would have come under the title: "high maintenance".

Not the most easiest type to be around all the time.

 

[DownUnderNZer]

Blue Owl: Focus Cards - WOMAN, MAN, and RING



What was the true state of her marriage like with King Henry the VIII before she was arrested or accused of treason etc?


Bear Dog WOMAN Cross House MAN Clouds Bouquet
Key Fish RING Lily Coffin


I think she was under the influence of someone else close to her (family/friend/other) and was extremely unhappy yet still remained stable and focused on the marriage whereas he was not only only unhappy and somewhat mindful of their marriage, but he also had grave doubts, and was either fixated with a younger female (than her and him) and/or looking for a solution to the dilemma.

(I do know he married Jane Seymour not too long after Anne Boleyn's death).

As for the relationship or marriage -

Quite a significant unison and match to start with - a soul connection with Anne B and Henry the VIII. Two independent spirits that impacted on each other like the Sun and the Moon really. Karma though, so something was meant to be experienced.

However, like most things that tire eventually, it looks like it became platonic and just moving through the motions for them, even before she was accused of anything.

Their marriage was definitely dead or over before she was charged with anything.

 

[DownUnderNZer]

Blue Owl. No focus card. 3 random.




One allegation against her was "witchcraft".

What were Anne B's thoughts towards things like witchcraft?


Mountain Ring Fish


I wonder if this is putting across that "witchcraft" wasn't really something she thought about and might not have been high on her list as a topic of discussion, but rather that she was a free thinker and new ideas were interesting for her then. Things more predictable and tangible perhaps.

I think it is safe to say that witchcraft is something she might not have delved into or took the time to think about really.

 

[DownUnderNZer]

Blue Owl. No focus card. 3 random cards.

German vs French.

How likely is it that Anne B was having an affair?

German:

Dog Bear Lily

I wonder if Anne Boleyn had an interest in men and women.

These cards indicate another man, and a woman close to her, like a mother or grandmother only sexual.

French:

Dog Bear Lily

Another male on the scene (not King Henry VIII) and a person known to her for a while.


Dog came up in the Him, Her, Marriage one.

Despite her being the loyal and reliable type it seems there was another "significant other" in her life. Even if it was just a deep friendship, which it very well could have been, it would not have mattered as it would still have been looked upon as a "betrayal" I reckon.

So, the allegations made against her like Adultery, may have actually been based on the truth even if not the truth in its entirety.

 

[DownUnderNZer]

Note: Bear can also be seen as masculine and therefore "father" or "patriarchal".

Whether mother or father - not really an area I'd like to explore.

But it makes one wonder - did certain families back then of noble blood have incestuous relationships?

Are there any historians on AT that studied British Royal Family histories.

Be good to know just not in great depth as it would be a bit too disturbing for my tastes.

 

[Kurenai]

Note: Bear can also be seen as masculine and therefore "father" or "patriarchal".

Whether mother or father - not really an area I'd like to explore.

But it makes one wonder - did certain families back then of noble blood have incestuous relationships?

Are there any historians on AT that studied British Royal Family histories.

Be good to know just not in great depth as it would be a bit too disturbing for my tastes.

It depends what you mean by "incestuous" -- if we're talking about between immediate family members, no, I do not think that was very common. I know that in some cases when first cousins had to marry for political reasons (both being from royal families), they had to get a dispensation from the pope.

That being said, if you look at some of the royal households of Europe, (especially the Spanish Hapsburgs) it was very common for uncles to marry their nieces, which ended in children born with genetic defects like this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain

 

[DownUnderNZer]

Will research her tomorrow or on the weekend...

In this tv series I watched on the most part, but skipped through a few parts, called Wolf Hall, I am sure one of her maids said she "kissed" her brother and not in a family way.

With the DOG it could be her brother (or anyone) but with BEAR only if she looked upon her brother as a fatherly figure.

May have to explore the significant other more I think. And indeed I will.

Thanks for the link.

He looks rather peculiar.

It depends what you mean by "incestuous" -- if we're talking about between immediate family members, no, I do not think that was very common. I know that in some cases when first cousins had to marry for political reasons (both being from royal families), they had to get a dispensation from the pope.

That being said, if you look at some of the royal households of Europe, (especially the Spanish Hapsburgs) it was very common for uncles to marry their nieces, which ended in children born with genetic defects like this one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain

 

[Kurenai]

Will research her tomorrow or on the weekend...

In this tv series I watched on the most part, but skipped through a few parts, called Wolf Hall, I am sure one of her maids said she "kissed" her brother and not in a family way.

With the DOG it could be her brother (or anyone) but with BEAR only if she looked upon her brother as a fatherly figure.

May have to explore the significant other more I think. And indeed I will.

Thanks for the link.

He looks rather peculiar.

Yes he does look peculiar no? His family tree looks like it's upside down too.

From what I know of Anne, she probably treasured her virginity. It is true that she spent time in the French court while growing up (where sexual license must have been more freely expressed), she did not jump into bed with Henry rightaway when he started courting her. She kept him at bay, saying that her virginity is the most important gift she could bestow upon her husband. It could have been her ploy to keep the King to desire her more, but it could very well have had the opposite effect. It was not until it was very clear and certain that Henry would divorce Catherine (his first wife) did Anne yield to Henry's advances.

The story of incest between Anne and her brother are trumped up charges to secure the guilty verdict for the poor woman. Henry argued that Anne had "bewitched" him into marrying her, and therefore the marriage was invalid. The charges of incest was added for good measure to destroy Anne and her family completely so that they would dare not get politically ambitious again.

Incest is a topic that both abhors and fascinates people, but in terms of royalty or nobility, I don't think it is as common as people think. The movies and film portray it so they can get better ratings and add to the mysticism of the plot and characters. First of all, children of royalty or high nobility were rarely left alone by themselves. From the day they are born they are surrounded by nurse maids and other servants, and whatever they do is public knowledge. Secondly, the children were segregated by gender as soon as they were potty trained -- girls were taught by governesses to sew, embroider, and do other things befitting of their status and sex. Boys were taken away from the women and spent times with tutors and riding masters. Therefore, the time they had in the company of women can be fairly limited.

 

[DownUnderNZer]

Fascinating information really.

Will still look more at the S O, but will look up Anne Boleyn first in regards to her relationship with other men and her brother although the 1530's is a very very long time ago. Like over 500 years!

With Roman history and even Greek it was not uncommon for men to be sleeping with boys and to make not so respectful arrangements between "old men" and "young girls" and that kind of carry on.

So, why would Britain have been above that?

Surely it could not have been because of "religion".

Yes he does look peculiar no? His family tree looks like it's upside down too.

From what I know of Anne, she probably treasured her virginity. It is true that she spent time in the French court while growing up (where sexual license must have been more freely expressed), she did not jump into bed with Henry rightaway when he started courting her. She kept him at bay, saying that her virginity is the most important gift she could bestow upon her husband. It could have been her ploy to keep the King to desire her more, but it could very well have had the opposite effect. It was not until it was very clear and certain that Henry would divorce Catherine (his first wife) did Anne yield to Henry's advances.

The story of incest between Anne and her brother are trumped up charges to secure the guilty verdict for the poor woman. Henry argued that Anne had "bewitched" him into marrying her, and therefore the marriage was invalid. The charges of incest was added for good measure to destroy Anne and her family completely so that they would dare not get politically ambitious again.

Incest is a topic that both abhors and fascinates people, but in terms of royalty or nobility, I don't think it is as common as people think. The movies and film portray it so they can get better ratings and add to the mysticism of the plot and characters. First of all, children of royalty or high nobility were rarely left alone by themselves. From the day they are born they are surrounded by nurse maids and other servants, and whatever they do is public knowledge. Secondly, the children were segregated by gender as soon as they were potty trained -- girls were taught by governesses to sew, embroider, and do other things befitting of their status and sex. Boys were taken away from the women and spent times with tutors and riding masters. Therefore, the time they had in the company of women can be fairly limited.

 

[DownUnderNZer]

Think it is fair to say that everything I have read so far is 50/50.

Saint vs Whore.

As for her personality she does seem to have been the "high maintenance" sort if Henry VIII was trying to appease her all the time, but there is a strong possibility that no one really knows and what is written in books and poems may have been biased or based on a brief meeting with her etc etc etc. One person may have come away from her thinking clever, witty, charming whereas another may have thought self centered, rude, and aggressive.

I don't think anyone truly knows what she really looked like or what she really really was like.

As for the "adultery" seems some poem has emerged (1000 words) about this
topic by a French poet called De Carle. There may be elements of truth to it as it does coincide with certain letters, but it does not mean it is absolute proof.

Interesting.....


Adding the poem and write up: