astrology in the southern emisphere

ophrys

How does traditional astrology work in the southern emisphere? I mean because the season's cycle is inverted a person with Sun in Libra has Aries characteristics?
Ptolomaeus and a lot of acient astrologers used transits to make weather reports and, i.e., the third decade of Capricorn is very rainy, here a conjunction of Moon and Mars forebodes a thunderstorm, is in Australia the same or it forbodes a hot foggy day?
I know, now watch reports at the television is easier and faster than make a chart, but symbolism is inverted?
Blessings
 

dadsnook2000

Southern Hemisphere

In the simplest of terms, the houses are reversed.

Consider these points:
1) North or south, the earth still rotates on its axis in the same direction.
2) Therefore, for the same longitude, the same sign/area of the zodiac will still be rising in the east.
3) The planets will remain in same signs they are in when viewed from the nothern hemisphere.
4) While the Sun appears to be southward at noontime in the northeren regions, the Sun appears to be northward at noontime in the southern regions -- something that is more obvious at greater latitudes then lower latitudes.
5) At noon time, no matter which hemisphere you are in, you want the Sun to appear to be in/near the 10th house. Ergo, the houses are reversed with the first house to the east and the tenth house to the south (for the north hemisphere) and to the north for the south hemisphere.

One of problems behind a valid question like this is that astrologers no longer have to calculate charts by hand, they just press a few buttons on the computer. While slower, manual chart calculation does assure you a fuller understanding of the mechanics of it all. Dave.
 

ophrys

Thanks for your suggestion, perhaps this is the key for the alternative/esoteric zodiacs. I'll try to read again some books from this point of view.
And what about the equator?
 

ophrys

One of problems behind a valid question like this is that astrologers no longer have to calculate charts by hand, they just press a few buttons on the computer. While slower, manual chart calculation does assure you a fuller understanding of the mechanics of it all. Dave.[/QUOTE]

I began making charts when astrology software didn't exist yet, but I never made a chart for an Australian and I never been for a time long enough in the southern hemisphere.
 

dadsnook2000

Sitting on the fence.

The equator? Don't you know that books can't tell you everything! If you mean "close" to the equator then it doesn't make much difference whether you do your calculations north or south, you just place the daytime sun in the 7-12 houses and the nighttime sun in the 1-6 houses. If you use a computer you'll have to enter some latitude -- even if its is 00-01 or (for its southern counterpart) -00-01. You'll know just by looking at the chart which houses are which. Dave.
 

ophrys

Thanks for your suggestions, but that's not the point, I apologize for my english that may seem greek, but my problem is not how to make a chart 4 the equator or the s.h. , but how to interpretate it.
In traditional astrology the zodiacal simbology is based on the wheat cycle: leo: ripe ear, virgo: harvest, libra: ploughing, scorpio: seedtime, sagittarius:germination and so on.
If in the s. h. the cycle is inverted what about the people?
If november is the blooming time, a person born in this month in the s.h. is a taurus or a scorpio?
I right now found a database of doctors and I observed in about the 97% of the charts something in the 2nd decade of sagit. (often a stellium) is the same for southern doctors, or they have the 2nd decade of gemini stimulated?
 

dadsnook2000

This is interesting !

This is interesting! A good question, very good. If we re-phrase the question then we have two issues: 1) Does the zodiac's progression-of-meaning (as developed in the northern latitude cultures) apply to the southern latitudes as well --- OR --- is it reversed? 2) If it applies equally all over the globe, does it mean that cross-cultural contacts and migrations are the reason people have unknowingly propigated it -- OR -- is it invalid and all in our minds?

Let us lay out some discussion points.

1) To me, it would be logical to see it as reversed IF it is indeed based on the local seasonal/growing cycles. Given that astrologers in southern latitudes have not reported any problems with the conventional application of signs, then I would assume that the signs themselves should have an influence and not the growing cycle.

2) If the signs themselves have intrinsic meanings, then how do we account for the different zodiacs, the shift of signs relative to star patterns (the age of Aquarius and all that) and the fact that we in the northern hemisphere have stuck with, and use, the vernal-equinox point as the basis for our tropical zodiac. The tropical zodiac is mathematically calculated and has no relationship to the star patterns -- it is seasonal related.

So, if sign meanings can't be linked to star patterns, then it leaves "seasonal" issues as having intrinisic meaning to our physiology and conditioning. If that is so, then it should be reversed for the southern hemisphere. Since it is not, then there must be another answer! What is it?

I can't answer that right now. What I do know is this. The signs seem to have some validity in birth charts -- it's like we pass through a conditioning period prior to birth, and are born at a time that seems to "fit." We can read this in a birth chart and it appears valid, even if it is a weak influence relative to planets, aspects, angularity and houses. The signs have some validity in "mundane" astrology in terms of imprinting the event, although it again seems weaker than planetary conjunctions with a basis chart or house applications. NOW HERE IS WHERE I GET INTO A LOT OF TROUBLE. I don't believe "signs" have much value in day-to-day transits and progressions as they overlay a natal chart -- only the characteristics of the natal chart signs seem to have any value at all. In my work I seldom use houses, almost never use signs, often don't use aspects and mostly concentrate on planetary combinations, angularity, cycle charts and cycles that relate to a basis/natal chart.

So, I'll think about your question. If I have found "signs" to be mostly useless to me, then perhaps its because they are weak in influence and in application -- I mean rigorous application where there meanings can be found from chart to chart with very high consistancy. My only advice for you to consider is to just forget about them except in birth charts, and even then, concentrate on aspect patterns and house meanings. Dave.
 

isthmus nekoi

just to add further confusion

Dave raises a good point about the validity of signs altogether. The sidereal chart calculations shift the signs (I forget how many degrees) e.g. an Aquarius ASC in tropical will be Cap ASC in sidereal. Yet sidereal has proven to be just as accurate in terms of prediction - thus giving weight to the idea that perhaps signs aren't as influential as many books would have us believe. (I have to admit though, I can't imagine reading someone's personality w/o the signs.................)

And I believe Aussie jmd did once mention (perhaps in the thread I linked?) that yes, some sun sign people did strike him as having characteristics of the opposite sign.
 

ophrys

And I believe Aussie jmd did once mention (perhaps in the thread I linked?) that yes, some sun sign people did strike him as having characteristics of the opposite sign.[/QUOTE]

It happens often (in the northern hemisphere) when a zone of a chart is very stimulated, i.e. a stellium or a planet that receives a lot of aspects, or the ruler of the sign opposite to the Sun conjuncted to the Asc. or to the Sun.
 
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