Minderwiz
tarotlyn said:Yes, that could be possible. Don't forget this little girl was with her mother
for over 2 years and under the influence of those combined hard aspects.
I wasn't foregetting I just wanted to see how generalised you saw the combined hard aspects and wanted to know whether you saw anyone with these combined hard aspects as probable murderers/abusers/victims - which you clearly do.
tarotlyn said:nk]If you watch the Nancy Grace program, they are knee deep in other cases with similar COMBINED HARD ASPECTS. Other than this, you would probably have to do a search for files at each police station in the world and gather the COMBINED HARD ASPECTS of the parents and children involved in such cases, keeping in mind that not all such cases would have such notoriety as this case. It would take you more than just over night to know that the police in the world are not blanketed with similar cases with similar or same combined hard aspects between parents and their children, or aunts and children, uncles and children, etc.
Well I don't think we get Nancy Grace in the UK but as I understand it, she's a legal commentator not an Astrologer - perhaps you could give me some information on her consideration of cases which explicitly involve the combined hard aspects - as it's you that's claiming these aspects are so prevelent and so universal in such cases, I'll leave you to do the trawling - but I'd be interested in the results
tarotlyn said:how far along her Spiritual path that Casey, the mom, was at the time.
She came here and had a choice, as we all do, whether she would go on a more Spiritual path,
or GIVE IN to those COMBINED HARD ASPECTS with her daughter. This was her choice.
She could give in or not give in. Obviously her daughter is dead, so 'I believe' that
she DID GIVE IN to those hard combined aspects during certain transit times.
I merely used the word 'could' so that others could check out these combined hard aspects
between the mother and the daughter and then decide for themselves.
So the combined hard aspects CAN be overridden by other factors by people who are on a spiritual path - apart from circumstance (and Casey could be found innocent) how do you know that she ISN'T on a spiritual path, when there's no accurate chart for her? What astrological evidence have you? I can understand a view that everyone in a relationship with these aspects will end up killing or abusing but you've now come up with an exception - how do you know astrologically that Casey is not spiritually inclined?
tarotlyn said:You ask how we do it? My answer is simple: We just get out there into the world and CHART people and we gain experience and 'people' knowledge rather than 'just' book knowledge. That is how we do it. We find out for ourselves by doing the charting and counseling out there in the real world. Book knowledge is a good take off point, but we need real experience from real people that have these types of aspects. That is how because otherwise anyone can write anything they want in a book or course on astrology, but until they have actually experienced these types of hard aspects through counseling and observing first hand, then they are stuck in a book and lost in details.
Well I've been charting for 45 years but charting alone is insufficient - there needs to be a philosophic and astrological structure to the process, otherwise we have data but not knowledge - the latter requires the ability to appraise and interpret the data and to draw conclusions, which in turn requires the structures for doing that. In the question I posed, the only way to settle the issue is to have a series of formal structured investigations - these may indeed confirm the hard aspect view or establish clear limits to it's effectiveness. That might sound a negative comment but I put it forward in a positive way - I think we should do much more to formally investigate our Astrological tenets. I've argued elsewhere for such tests for the outers especially but with little interest.
tarotlyn said:I definitely was not flattering you, sorry you think that. I just thought that you knew enough 'book knowledge' to be able to do your own analysis of these COMBINED HARD ASPECTS.
I didn't actually think you were LOL And the answer to your point is that I have both the 'book knowledge and the practical experience to do such analysis - however the last 10 years has led me down a different path and I have little interest in using the outers but a lot of interest in looking at murder and abuse cases - hence my other post which goes some way in confirming your conclusions.
tarotlyn said:BUT, now that you say you do not take into consideration Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto,
I believe that your take on the matter might very well be of minimal help to my post,
at least in my mind. In that, 'you' think that is not possible to have such COMBINED HARD ASPECTS (that 'could' have caused the murder of Caylee Anthony by her mother Casey Anthony) because you do not include Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto and they are not traditional to 'you.'
...whereas, I do include them and think they are of great value.
That of course is probably subject for an entirely different post.
Hmm I would have thought that you were open enough to other views to see that a different approach might actually shed light on the 'combined hard aspects' - my analysis reached a reasonably similar conclusion i.e. that Casey was involved in the disposal of the remains (now admitted) but that it's unlikely that the grandfather was involved, as per defence claim. The conclusion is that she probably killed, either intentionally or accidentally Caylee and then disposed of the body. Either way a serious criminal offence was committed.
However if you're not interested in confirmatory evidence which doesn't simply say combined hard aspects = guilt = combined hard aspects, then it's a bit of a pity as we could have taken this to quite a deep level.
tarotlyn said:The same goes for COMBINE HARD ASPECTS between two people.
When you live them, breath them watch them. see them, counsel them, THEN
you know and can surmise the effects of COMBINED HARD ASPECTS.
Maybe someone else, that DOES INCLUDE Uranus, Pluto, and Neptune for consideration,
could analyze these COMBINED HARD ASPECTS which we have been talking about.
As you already have decided that only the COMBINED HARD ASPECTS are the only possible relevant astrological information and that you have years of analysing them, what is the point of anyone commenting on them, as you will not change your mind if they disagree, and won't learn anything if the do agree - I offered you an alternative approach that came to similar conclusions (and actually used verified charts) I'm not saying the alternative is a replacement or a better or even the 'right' approach - I'm saying that maybe it's a complementary view that with some discussion both ways might lead to a deeper understanding - yet you have fixated on the idea that I'm opposing you or that because I raise concerns I must be only into 'book learning' and don't do charts.
Yes I've challenged some of your points, more because I wasn't clear how far you took the aspects without the context of a chart (and therefore house and sign placements) - I think you've answered my questions.
I don't think that of themselves the combined hard aspects provide a complete explanation - that's a matter of opinion though - but I don't see any a priori reason why their prediction in this case cannot be tested using other methods to see if the same conclusion is reached.
So don't be so defensive - accept that there are other real astrological systems that pre-date Alan Leo and might actually throw light on an issue and indeed work in tandem with a modern approach, highlighting different but relevant points and often coming to the same conclusions. I've had quite a few discussions on the outers with another Astrologer here, and we fundamentally disagree but I have to happily admit that when we look at a chart or a situation, we are in general agreement far more often than we disagree. I would have said that there is more than one way to skin a cat but as a devout and devoted cat lover I certainly wouldn't use that phrase
I'm off on a short midweek break but I should be able to pick up any replies, I'd be particularly interested in your take on the discovery chart. However I might not be able to get back to you promptly.
Hugs