Deck of the Dreamers

[EthanJamesPetty]

Hi, I've been out of the community for a long time, I have never been a tarot reader but I did study the symbolism and spoke with many readers while crafting the Deck of the Dreamers, but I have a few new questions.

I am revamping the cards (they were rejected for publication originally by every company I tried), and this time adding much more detail and higher resolution for easier printing (that was a complaint last time). My questions are:

1. Is it more common to see full decks with major and minor arcana or just major arcana? My minors were nowhere near as detailed as my majors, and I wondered if this didn't work against the deck. If the standard is to simply release majors only, I am wondering whether or not it is worth revamping the whole deck.

2. For those of you who do read, do you tend to use the minors or mostly just the majors?

3. How picky about symbolism are you with your cards? Do you check for the valid symbols in each card? For example, below I will link my Fool card (showing old version and revamp) but you will notice there is no dog present. Is this something that would make you dismiss reading with this deck?

I'd appreciate any information you have, as I have the chance to polish these things before I seek publication again.

Thanks,
-Ethan

Updating with actual site link:

http://www.thehorrorcarnival.com/dreamers/dreamers.html

 

[truthsayer]

ethan,
i hope you don't mind but i moved this thread to tarot deck creation where i believe it will gain more attention.

by the way, i love your revised edition of the fool card.

 

[EthanJamesPetty]

I was waiting for that...I realized too late that I stuck it in the wrong forum. Thank you for redirecting!

 

[Logiatrix]

beautiful work...

Hello, Ethan, and Welcome!
I am an avid tarot deck collector and I also read the cards as a hobby.
Clearly, you are a wonderful artist; and as a collector, you already have my attention. However, as a reader, I need the deck to be a complete 78 cards. The major AND minor arcana both contribute significantly to a reading. Also, the minor arcana needs the same attention as the majors. When a deck artist has clearly not invested much thought or detail in the minor arcana, it is immediately evident to a tarotist. Some decks even have minors that don't look as if they are from the same deck as their majors. For some reason, this is especially dissappointing when the major arcana is especially stunning.
To answer your third question: tarot IS symbolism! To me, the symbols are the soul of the tarot.
As for your sample: your improvement is excellent; you are on the right track. However, the dog IS an important element in the Fool card, IMO. In some texts, the dog is a symbol of faithfulness; in other books, it is a symbol of the primal nature. Some decks give the Fool not a dog, but rather a cat (Nigel Jackson's Tarot) or a monkey (Light and Shadow Tarot by Michael Goepford), and I think it is in the Elemental Tarot where you will find an alligator! Maybe you will prefer another animal besides a dog?

You have a magnificent foundation of exquisite artistic expression to contribute to a complete deck of 78 cards. I sincerely hope that you will take your time to study all the cards, majors and minors alike. This forum will prove to be an invaluable resource, with long-time tarotists and fresh-minded beginners ready to help with suggestions. I believe that you will find your time invested in further research quite worthwhile.
Please keep us updated on your progress, and good fortune to you!

 

[HOLMES]

HOLY COW IT IS YOU )

i am so over joyed one of the my favourite unpublished decks has come to the forum to ask me for imput .
it means to me that you care ,, you really care *sniffs*
okk to get started.

I am revamping the cards (they were rejected for publication originally by every company I tried), and this time adding much more detail and higher resolution for easier printing (that was a complaint last time). My questions are:

ok first of all, i been waiting for your minors to catch up to your majors and let tell you (IF I HAD THE MONEY I WOULD PUBLISH IT RIGHT NOW but as it is ,, I am one poor tarot enthusiasts eheh)

when i buy a tarot deck and find the minors arent' as detailed or well done as the majors it ends up at the bottom of my tarot cooler.

i use the whole deck, except for one spread i am working that directs you to your soul path , it is full tarot all the way baby .

3. How picky about symbolism are you with your cards? Do you check for the valid symbols in each card? For example, below I will link my Fool card (showing old version and revamp) but you will notice there is no dog present. Is this something that would make you dismiss reading with this deck?
what no dog ? hmm i will miss it but i havne't looked at the links yet to see the dogs, but let me tell you ..

your original magican.. the one that is previewed on aeclectic tarot who looked like a cooky old man, like a trickster but i saw that to be like a yoda to hide his true self.
http://www.aeclectic.net/dreamers/index.html

i was so disappointed when you changed his face to be more serious that is my one only compliment about your deck..
(a fellow old aeclectic member here named hermit liked your hermit in general when we were discussing it in general last year , but he commented that he looked
1. afraid , rather then wise,
2. the lantern didn't shine enough into the background.

besides that ..

it is your tarot , you must follow your vision (did lots of people complain about your magican and that is why you changed it ?:O(
and if it means something to add or take away a symbol i see no problem with it,

just to let you know that i love rider waite derivities, and mostly a traditionalist in that area,

but your magican when i first saw it on aeclectic preview and the vivid colour blew me away and i said to myself that is one the tarot for the moderan area i must have.

i personaly want to see your best that you can give me,, all your energy , all your knowledge, all your spirit so when i see your tarot in my hands one night i know that is the best efforts and deserve my respects ( dont' cave in,, for someday soon your deck will find a way )

if you like to have unbais (well a bit bias for i love your deck ) insight about getting your deck published ..1.
or what to improve in your tarto 2.
(two possible questions that greatly need clarifying , for me it is 1, for you it is two that is important )

post a reading in your readings, with deck, specific clarified question, and postions and i will inteprate it ..

orrrr i am making a special offer to read the question in the reading exchangeif you prefer me to shuffle the cards.
that is how much i want to help you make that deck

deck of dreamers (whispers in the tone of 7 days )

edited to add

i saw your old and new version. and the only feedback i have is..

i know it is missing a white dog,, but does it have to be a dog
i was going to say bird but then people will think it is the dove of touched by an angel and think your coming from religious areas.

how about ,, BIG WHITE BEAR ?
or even better siberian tiger

ah well just a suggestion .. (smiles broadly at ethan petty and says thanks you so much for letting give you feedback )

 

[galadrial]

I have around 30 decks and I read with all of them. I like your artwork a lot, but in order for me to seriously consider getting your deck the minors would have to be present AND as detailed. No offense, but since you do not read the cards yourself I cannot assume that you are being minimalistic to any purpose, ie: that certain present symbols are supposed to imply the meanings of the missing ones as well, or that you left out certain symbols because you disagreed in some way with their traditional inclusion. I think it is o.k., and can even be quite refreshing, to use different symbols though. There is an upcoming deck that uses a Puffin instead of the little dog and the Fool is walking through a forest in winter. That gives food for thought. In fact, perhaps that is the nub of what I'm trying to say; readers look to the symbols as food for thought and springboards for intuitive associations. If the cards don't have symbols which are rich with meaning then they will not evoke a response beyond "Hmmmm, lovely.", which is useless for readings. Sorry if I sound harsh, but I would love to see your deck reach print and be successful, and I think a 78 card, symbolism rich deck will greatly increase your chances of that.

 

[EthanJamesPetty]

Wow

Wow, thank you for the input, I had no idea people would react this way to the deck (in fact, I mostly expected nobody would have heard of it). I'm used to dealing with stuffy art people and I forgot how nice this community is! I have a feeling I will be asking for a lot of help here to make sure the deck stays true to the people who will use it (and myself). Let me explain a few things and then I will comment on the two cards...

The "reason" I do not read tarot is because for me it was a personal taboo brought about by my mother. She is a very religious lady, and when I was little she "warned" me about things that the devil uses to get to people...ouija boards and tarot cards. If I remember right, she even told me some horror story about a friend who used them and brought angry spirits into his life. I believed her then (hell, I was 10 years old) and one time found a pack of tarot cards strewn about a street. I was so fascinated by the imagery on each card, but refused to even pick them up. My friend, also looking at them, found the death card and ran off. I followed! In my teens I developed my own insights on religion (which is basically I can't prove anything is real or is not real) and began to show interest in the things that maybe could prove there is more out there than we think. In my early twenties, I returned to the tarot, eager to find out exactly what had scared my mother so much.

I was fascinated by the symbolism and decided I wanted to do my own deck, and began to research them. I found a tarot chatroom on IRC and consulted with several practicing readers on the meanings behind each card, the symbolism...etc. The deck isn't crafted by someone with no knowledge of the tarot, just by someone who doesn't know it on a reader's level. I've decided against doing readings, not because of my mother's influence, but because of the same reason I wouldn't want to be a doctor. Yes, you help people understand their problems, but I wouldn't want to be the one to deliver the news to them I'm perfectly content crafting the tools.

The theme of the Deck of the Dreamers is one of just that - surreal dreams. The people are disproportioned, the symbolism is weird at times, and a lot of the ideas are out there, but still attempts at staying true to the original symbolism. You'll notice in my revamps, the cards will stay mostly the same in original concept, but some of the people will seem more dreamlike.


1. The minors - based on the feedback here I have decided to revamp the minors as well. Originally, they were as detailed in their execution, it was the coloring that was slightly less impressive. They tended to be a single color for each suit instead of full-colored like the majors. I am not sure how I will handle the color scheme in the revamp...

2. The Fool - you're right. It's been bothering me that there was no dog (or animal) in the card since the beginning, but I never pushed myself to add one, maybe out of concerns that it will look silly. I will give it a shot though...I think the card needs it.

3. The Magician - Don't worry, the mage certainly doesn't look as serious in his new version, in fact the new hat he is wearing makes him seem even more over-the-top than before. I don't know why I changed it originally, probably just a simple artistic alteration because I wasn't happy with the facial structure. I wanted him to look like someone who has a lot on his mind, who uses everything he has to impress people. One small thing I added was the mirror on his hat, in it you can see the reflection of the person (the fool, perhaps) he is charming with his display. The only thing I am not sure on is the background color...it doesn't have the brightness of the original, but it does seem more like a storm of energy or something behind him. This may end up changing. The preview is here:

http://www.thehorrorcarnival.com/tarmage.jpg

Again, thanks for all the input! (And I'll get back to you on that reading, Holmes)

 

[Mimers]

Ethan,

Fantastic deck!

I am not as fussy as others about the minors. I read with decks that have unillustrated pips and that is fine. I also use the Fey deck who's minors are the best I've seen so far. The details and care taken adds so much to the reading.

Symbolism in the majors. Well, what is important really is that the message of the card is there. I don't mind deviation. One of my favorite decks is the Osho Zen Tarot which some will argue is not even a Tarot deck.

Your deck is marvolous darling. Don't sweat it. Good luck in your endevour.

Mimi

 

[HOLMES]

hey i like your face :O)

that magican looks a lot better then the regal one done a while ago .

your sword needs that glean back on i :O) and i like how the horns curl.. now instead of going straight up.

*the cups would look cool if it had fire coming out of it, like it was a potion . *

 

[Logiatrix]

wow, you're good...

ethan,
fantastic!
you better not go anywhere now--you're OURS!


(p.s.---> i like the re-done magician, except his beard on the former version looked better to me. a longer, pure-white beard implies wisdom...kind of like "The Ancient" on "Kung-Fu"--cool!)