Definition Of Wicca

[Kiama]

Recently, my friend Luke asked me if I would initiate him into the Wiccan tradition at Imbolc next year on a visit to Glastonbury Tor. I said sure. I then told my other friend, Niall about this, and he had several problems with it.

Firstly, he said that to inititiate somebody into Wicca, you need to be a Third Degree Priestess. Now, I am not Wiccan, I am Celtic Pagan.

Secondly, he said that if you are going to inititiate somebody, you also have to teach them. Well, me and Luke have taught each other ever since we first met.

Thirdly (And the biggey!) he said that the defiinition of Wicca, is that you have to have direct lineage to Gerald Gardner, coven wise. Which means you have to belong to a coven which is directly hived from Gardners original one.

Now, this last criterion for initiation of Luke into Wicca poses a problem more for people not from England, where Gardner's coven was. As he set down in his BOS, you must be directly lineaged to him to be 'proper Wiccan'. Now, I know many of us have a problem with this, cuz loads of us prefer to practise alone. Also, I think that this criteria really stops people from practising a religion that they believe in.

Personally, I am not affected by this, but I am worried and kinda confused... What about you guys? You consider yourself Wiccan, and I certainly wouldn't argue with that, cuz I believe that religion is a personal thing. But what Gardner did still has implications over here in England, cuz there are some who are directly lineaged from Gardner, and will really have a go and even make threats to those who call themselves Wiccan but, acording to this criteria, aren't....

So, what do you guys think? I just need a discussion on this to clear my head really, and you guys are great for discussion!

Kiama

 

[Jeanette]

Kiama, I just started studying about Wicca - beliefs, practices, etc. So far, everything I've read makes me very comfortable, because it seems like it is such a tolerant way of life. It seems to encompass everyone who truly upholds the SPIRIT of the whole system. So, to me, (certainly no authority!) if you feel it in your heart, you are. Maybe I'm mistaken in this belief? I hope not, because this world desperately needs a religion/spiritual path that doesn't exclude people, possibly causing animosity and negativity. Maybe others with more experience have other thoughts.... Jeanette

 

[tiger lily]

I?m not a Wiccan, but I was interested in it for a time and read up on it on the net. from what I understand, there are lots of traditions that either branched out from Gardnerism or were founded independantly by the inspiration of one or several persons. All of them consider themselves to be Wiccan. If you tell an Alexandrian or a Dianic that they are no "proper" Wiccans, they?ll laugh in your face (if they?re nice ;-) ).

If you want to get an overview, look here:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5756/tradlist.html

I find it hilarious that a supposedly non-dogmatic religion invites discussions about orthodoxy...

 

[jade]

i am wiccan and i self-initiated with my best friend. i also did another self-initiation alone in the tub cause i have a huge connection to water. my hubby self-initiated on our wedding night 3 years ago.

i do not agree with any of your requirements. if you choose to join a coven THEN a high priestess usually initiates you and then teaches you for a year and a day.....but if he wants to self-initiate (which is what this sounds like) then there is no teaching (just learning)

my soul-mother who is a high priestess, celtic shaman, firewalk instructor etc. she also teaches wicca 101 says, "most people are already wiccan, they just haven't realized it yet!" i just called her to check again, but she's in the middle of her wicca 101 class. but i never initiated with her and she supported my self-initiation completely! and she knows her wicca and magic BIG TIME....she's the maggie in maggie's magic spells!

blessed be.
jade

 

[jade]

also, my littlest daughter had a wiccaning, which is like a baptism...in wicca we don't choose a child's religion for them........but the promises that were made to her were from our belief system.....and i consider all my children wiccan and they are not part of a coven!

my 15 year old wears a pentacle and is proud of being wiccan.

so in your friends opinion, we aren't wiccan................your friend is wrong.

love and light,
jade

 

[purplelady]

I consider myself wiccan and have also self-initiated. An advantage of being solitary is not having to worry about the silly rules or catagorizations or labels imposed by other people!

 

[Kiama]

Woah there Jade, among others... That was NOT my friend's opinion, and if there's anyone in this world who's gonna disagree with what Gardner said, it's him! (Celtic Pagan with Chaos and Discordian tendancies. He was just telling me what Gardner himself said.

Personally, I have no problems with initiating Luke, cuz we both believe basically the same things. I was just asking my friend Niall about this, and he told me what Gardner said. We both love arguing from others' perspectives, cuz it helps us see things differently.

Neither of us defend the views I wrote about it the original post. What I'll do is ask my friend more about this, and see if I can find out more, cuz it's intriguing. I know that Wicca is a religion which (I hope!) is tolerant and accepting, aswell as dogmatic, and when I was researching it for three years, I saw that it was not dogmatic or 'elitist'. However, my friend is one of those people who has researched extensively, and I find it very hard to discredit what he finds out... (If anyone wants to read some of his work and views, he writes for WitchVox... I'll ask him later if I can give you his surname.)

Anyway, with this post I wasn't trying to discredit any Wiccans out there, and I wasn'ttrying to say you are wrong. I was merely trying to start an interesting discussion. It obviously hasn't worked.

Kiama

 

[morgane]

I wouldn't consider myself exactly Wiccan although I use magic in my everyday life.
I have also been in contact with one guy from Ireland who relayed these directives from Gardner (he didn't adhere either) and the friend who introduced me to magic has just left a grove that wanted to become a teaching grove and establish a hierarchy (plus they didn't want to let anyone they hadn't tested attend a celebration, even as non-acting participant).
I'd quite like to know exactly what sources Gardner used when he defined his grades and directives for Wicca. If we actually take the thread that wicca is the Old English for witchcraft or for healing with nature then there were loads of wiccans in the world before Gardner.
I think I'll probably hang on to my belief that what you feel comfortable with is the most important. Still it is interesting to hear about sources.

 

[jade]

Quote:Kiama (23 Sep, 2001 04:34):
I then told my other friend, Niall about this, and he had several problems with it....

Personally, I am not affected by this, but I am worried and kinda confused...

So, what do you guys think? I just need a discussion on this to clear my head really, and you guys are great for discussion!

Kiama

relax kiama, no "whoa" needed. if you read your post....you said you needed to clear your head and that's all i was attempting to do. i didn't take it at all as "we aren't wiccan because..."

cause i don't need anyone's approval for being me.

smile and i'll smile with you,
don't smile and i'll smile without you,
cause i'm still gonna smile.

love and light,
jade still smiling

ps just trying to be 'great for discussion'

 

[Kiama]

Thanks Jade. I was just thrown by the fact that you said
iall was wrong. I'm gonna research this further and see what sources Gerald Gardner used. Your answer 'I don't need anyone's approval for being me' qwas what I was looking for. I thought people might say that. Personally, I am of the opinion that my religion is my own choice, and I am prett y sick and tired of others making the decision for me. It seems strange tat Gadrner would say something like that.

Still smilling! :-D

Kiama