Cerulean
The original discussion refers to the English translation in a few posts...this version is by Beryl Stockman, published in 2008 by Aeon Book
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=72834&highlight=divinatory+tarot+papus
The reason I am posting here is to continue the discussion.
I seem very grateful for this lively and gentle translation as the first descriptive words for the two of cups is "from the point of view of spiritual healing..." which I could have missed with my rusty French! Let me explain why...
I was going through this book more carefully because I was working with my Etteillas in a different way lately. I started a thread in Tarot History of doing a somewhat subjective English more related to Victorian or period language rather than a modern English Editions Dusserre French to English translation of the Oracle des Dames by Julia Orsini (likely around 1850). The Julia Orsini text came with the circa 1850-1890 Lismon Etteilla (not published in the 20th century). There's a very fortune-telling slant, which is great in it's way--but Papus' Divinatory Tarot in translation brings home to me in clear English there were other things in play in how people looked at tarot in 1909.
Anyway, since the Papus book came out in 1909 with discussion that references Etteilla and some of the designs show semi-illustrated pips, especially in the Two of Cups. I had noted in earlier years that a version of the Etteilla had an interesting serpentine insignia as well as the cups...the Divinatory Tarot design with Papus' work translated shows a very alchemical serpentine caduceus that was made more clear in Pamela Colman Smith's work with the red lion on top. The caduceus can be Hermes...and medical organizations today use the double serpentine...anyway, in terms of enjoying looking at crossroads between alchemy and tarot in decks such as the modern Alchemical Tarot Renewed, retracing a look backwards can be illuminating.
Caduceus symbology:
http://drblayney.com/Asclepius.html
The translation in English and the posted design of the two cups and a central urn with entwined serpents on a stone reminded me of the Lismon Etteilla two of cups.
The Lismon Etteilla Two of Cups... where the cups are submerged under water and a flask is centered between them--the cups and flask are set on stone under water, one cup entwined with vegetation. Two serpents entwined on the thin neck of the flask as it rises to the surface and in the air the serpents face each other--a flame of yellow and rosy pink beween them.
If the central flask under water on a stone with rising entwined serpents in the air with a flame shooting out are not alchemically related...hmmm!
Close two of cups until I can upload the correct picture--the Grand Etteilla by Grimaud two of cups is very similar:
http://www.tarot.com/tarot/decks/index.php?deckID=9
I'll try to find a picture or post later when the light is better to take a picture...
But the English translation and work with the Ettella Tarots and Alchemical Tarot opened my eyes to see....crossroads with tarot and alchemy everywhere!
Cerulean
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=72834&highlight=divinatory+tarot+papus
The reason I am posting here is to continue the discussion.
I seem very grateful for this lively and gentle translation as the first descriptive words for the two of cups is "from the point of view of spiritual healing..." which I could have missed with my rusty French! Let me explain why...
I was going through this book more carefully because I was working with my Etteillas in a different way lately. I started a thread in Tarot History of doing a somewhat subjective English more related to Victorian or period language rather than a modern English Editions Dusserre French to English translation of the Oracle des Dames by Julia Orsini (likely around 1850). The Julia Orsini text came with the circa 1850-1890 Lismon Etteilla (not published in the 20th century). There's a very fortune-telling slant, which is great in it's way--but Papus' Divinatory Tarot in translation brings home to me in clear English there were other things in play in how people looked at tarot in 1909.
Anyway, since the Papus book came out in 1909 with discussion that references Etteilla and some of the designs show semi-illustrated pips, especially in the Two of Cups. I had noted in earlier years that a version of the Etteilla had an interesting serpentine insignia as well as the cups...the Divinatory Tarot design with Papus' work translated shows a very alchemical serpentine caduceus that was made more clear in Pamela Colman Smith's work with the red lion on top. The caduceus can be Hermes...and medical organizations today use the double serpentine...anyway, in terms of enjoying looking at crossroads between alchemy and tarot in decks such as the modern Alchemical Tarot Renewed, retracing a look backwards can be illuminating.
Caduceus symbology:
http://drblayney.com/Asclepius.html
The translation in English and the posted design of the two cups and a central urn with entwined serpents on a stone reminded me of the Lismon Etteilla two of cups.
The Lismon Etteilla Two of Cups... where the cups are submerged under water and a flask is centered between them--the cups and flask are set on stone under water, one cup entwined with vegetation. Two serpents entwined on the thin neck of the flask as it rises to the surface and in the air the serpents face each other--a flame of yellow and rosy pink beween them.
If the central flask under water on a stone with rising entwined serpents in the air with a flame shooting out are not alchemically related...hmmm!
Close two of cups until I can upload the correct picture--the Grand Etteilla by Grimaud two of cups is very similar:
http://www.tarot.com/tarot/decks/index.php?deckID=9
I'll try to find a picture or post later when the light is better to take a picture...
But the English translation and work with the Ettella Tarots and Alchemical Tarot opened my eyes to see....crossroads with tarot and alchemy everywhere!
Cerulean