famous chart exercise #4

[isthmus nekoi]

It's that time again! Here's another famous person's chart:

http://www.odivinorum.com/images/mysterychart05.gif

All levels are welcome to post, we welcome cursory impressions to in depth analysis.

There are two parts to the exercise:

- First, post your impressions about what type of person you think this chart represents. This is the key part of the exercise to help you develop your natal chart reading skills, so please share all your thoughts

- Second, choose the chart's identity from the following list. (btw, try not let the cat out of the bag too early on so everyone can have an unbiased guess for themselves!) I'll be back at the end of the week w/the correct answer.

1) Terrence McKenna - something of a cult figure in the psychedelic drug community, McKenna published a great deal of (New Age) literature consisting of wild theories about evolution, shamanism and drugs. He is probably best known for his work concerning the use of DMT.

2) Steve Case - cofounder of AOL, one of America's largest internet service providers who resigned in 2003 following the company's financial problems after its merger w/Time Warner.

3) Susan Helms - the first woman to live aboard the International Space Station, this American can also fly 30 different types of American and Canadian military aircraft.

4) Matt Groening - creater of the popular animated television series The Simpsons, as well as Futurama.

5) Oprah Winfrey - host of her own popular daytime talk show, this influential African American woman is also a successful enterpreneur with her own magazine, "O".

Note: I'm not sure whether this chart is rectified or not... I got the birth data from www.stariq.com who cites the Astrodatabank.

 

[prudence]

Terrance and Matt!!! Now we're cooking.

hmm, at first glance, I want to say what a nice triangle that is connecting merc, neptune and jupiter. It's perfect. Curious.

 

[prudence]

A question


Why is the MC- IC tilted?

Thank you

 

[isthmus nekoi]

Yes, it is a nice grand trine in air, but unlike JRR Tolkein's chart, this grand trine is very "loose" - Jupiter is at 16 degrees, Neptune at 26.

Much tighter are the squares: Saturn square sun/Venus, plus a T-square involving a Pluto-Mercury opposition and Mars at the apex. Whew!

As for the tilted MC, I'll have to apologize in advance for a superficial explanation as I'm terrible at spatial stuff so I have difficulty grasping this as well:

Good question, I mean why isn't the MC at the top of the chart if it's supposed to be the highest point? (Actually, I think in the equal house system it is?) Well, the natal chart is a 2D representation of 3D space (a sphere). The MC is where the meridian (90 degrees to the horizon) intersects w/the ecliptic which is tilted (great picture here: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/solar/imgsol/eclip.gif) so the tilt in the MC you see is more extreme the further you move away from the equator. That's also why seasons are more extreme the further N or S you go....

[edit]

Terrance and Matt!!! Now we're cooking.

Hee hee![/edit]

 

[Pipkin]

Taking a guess

I haven't had a good enough chance to look carefully at chart but on first impressions from the list of could-be's I'd say it is Steve Case. The money/values house is pretty full with aquarian energy which lends itself nicely to networking/communicating with the masses through the income - aol fits that well. The MC's ruler is also in the 2nd which leads me here too in the first instance.

 

[Kaylee Marie]

Steve Case is also my first guess. That grand trine between Mercury, Jupiter, and Uranus in the 2nd, 6th, and 10th houses respectively points toward a person for whom work is a very big deal indeed.

Mercury in the 2nd implies communication as a means for financial gain. Put that together with Neptune in the 10th, and you have a new communication technology brewing. Jupiter adds that extra bit of luck. Being in the right place in the right time allowed Steve to guide AOL to frontrunner status in the new Internet era.

Of course, this trine might also work well for Oprah. She's a communicator who often explores the Neptunian depths of her guests. She's very likeable, with a larger-than-life work persona. The Moon sextile Venus backs this up: she explores relationships as a means for money-making.

Mars in the 11th house trine Uranus in the 7th makes this person a natural born leader.

Not much going on at the axes (sp?).

I started this post thinking it was Steve Case, but now I might be leaning toward Oprah instead. Of course, I'm not ruling anyone out yet. These are all such interesting personalities with unique, even innovative, communication styles!

 

[Minderwiz]

I'm going to stay clear of this for a bit. In answer to the MC question, the MC is determined by two circles. The first is the Ecliptic, which is the apparant path of the Sun around the Earth (strictly speaking it's determined by the Earth's orbit around the Sun). It is tilted at approx 23 degrees to the Equator.

The second is the Meridian - this is a great circle that passes through the North and South poles at any given longitude. There is a meridian for every degree and minute (and indeed second) of longitude. Thus at my present location of s degrees 12 minutes west, there is a great circle that passes through this location and through the North and South poles of the Earth.

If the Meridian is extended outwards in space, where it cuts the Ecliptic is the degree of the MC. This will be the same for all places on this Meridian, whether North or South of my location. i.e. all places with the same longitude have the same MC (and therefore IC)

The MC is used to determine the Ascendant. Whilst the MC is the same at all latitudes on the Meridian, the Ascendant is not. The Ascendant is the point of intersection of the Ecliptic with the Eastern horizon as viewed from the location of birth. As we move further north (or South), the Eastern horizon shifts against the Ecliptic. From the Equator to the Tropics (the most Northerly and Southerly parts of the Ecliptic) The Ascendant is not far from 90 degrees to the MC and viewed as the two dimensional Astrological chart the four cardinal points would be (more or less) at right angles to each other. Thereafter the further North (or South) the birth the more oblique is the angle between MC and Ascendant and thus the four cardinal points are not at right angles anymore.

The traditional presentation of the chart is with the Ascendant / Descendant line forming a horizontal line in the centre of the chart. The MC will therefore appear to lean towards or away from the Ascendant, if the angles are properly drawn. Many programs ignore this and show the chart as though the four cardinal points are at right angles, even though the zodiacal degree, shows clearly they are not - in the case of this chart it's been 'properly' drawn by angle and the separation between Ascendant and MC is 72 degrees 17 minutes (I did that in my head so excuse any mathematical errors )

Isthmus mentioned the Equal House system. This chart is clearly not Equal House (simply look at the degrees on the cusps). In an Equal House system the MC is usually somewhere between the ninth and eleventh houses but it is quite possible, further North (or South) for it to fall in the eighth or twelfth Houses. At the North or South Pole, there is no Eastern Horizon, and so no Asendant (All directions at the North Pole are 'South') The Quadrant systems that use the MC as the cusp of the tenth fail at around the Artic / Antartic Circles (66 degrees 30 North or South).

OK so that's why the Chart is 'funny'

One sort of spanner - the Ascendant of this chart is 29 degrees 42 Sagittarius - if this birth is more than a minute out, this person might really have a Capricorn Ascendant! Even if the timing is dead accurate might he or she have some Capricorn in them ?

 

[Minderwiz]

Challenge

It's usual to approach a chart with the date and time of birth and then construct the chart using that information and the latitude and longitude of the place of birth.

As plotting from calculations can be error prone (or you entered the time wrongly) you should visually check that the chart matches the data. Can anyone work out the day and month of the birth (but not the year) and the time of the birth (at least approximately) by visual inspection of the chart.

If you are learning to read charts you ought to be able to work those out with reasonable accuracy.

We can then use the information to deduce something about the character of the person

 

[Kaylee Marie]

This person's sun is at 8 degrees 59' Aquarius, so was born on or around January 30. The second house sun indicates a birth approximately three hours before dawn. Assuming this person was born in the northern hemisphere (which I believe all of our choices were), then he/she was born around 4:30 am.

 

[Minderwiz]

Yes, that's more or less correct - I'd probably go for a day earlier - the 29th, because the Aqaurius ingress is usually on the 20th January, but the birth could be as late as the 30th in some years. My guess at the timing was also about 4:30 a.m. given that it's a Winter birth.

Timing can be a little difficult from a chart because you have to remember that the chart divides into half day and half night. The hours between Sunrise and Sunset forming one half and the hours between Sunset and Sunrise forming the other. As we know that in the Winter the hours of daylight are less than the hours of night time, using modern measurement, the chart in effect treats 'hours' at night as being longer than 'hours' during the day. Also latitude can play a role in determining when the Sun rises and sets - in Winter the further North you travel (and I fully agree with your comment that these are almost certainly Northern hemisphere births) the shorter the hours of daylight. However 4:30 a.m. is a good guess.

Now of course we could cheat at this point and try and find out the day and month of the births of these people but let's proceed a further step.

The Greek (speaking) Astrologers who developed the use of horoscopes, divided them into two two broad types. Diurnal births, that is during the hours of daylight, when the Sun dominated the chart and Nocturnal births. during the hours of darkness, when the Moon ruled the chart The Sun is always above the horizon during a day birth (by definition) but the Moon doesn't have to be above the horizon for a night birth - in this case it is and the Greeks argued that the Moon above the horzion for a night birth was highly desirable. This person then, on their arguments would be strongly lunar - so instincts, feelings, reactions would tend to dominate. They might also exhibit other lunar tendencies, such as 'behaviour' that goes in phases, this could be physical characteristics or what we now call behavioural characteristics.

The Moon is in it's last quarter, it's strength is both literally and symbolically waning. This is often seen as being analagous with the Winter birth. These are both seen as periods of relatively little action and things are therefore relatively slow. Again traditionally these are characteristics of the phlegmatic temperament, relatively slow and deliberate, there might be health problems that are symbolic of lethargy or could be described as being cold and Wet - low energy levels and a propensity to go with the flow, or to change shape easily.

Now these are only two of a number of factors that might contribute to a person's character - and may be shortly we could look at the Ascendant.

However, for the moment we might try seeing which of the candidates might be more lunar, or more phlegmatic than the others. I must admit I know little about virtually all these people except Matt Groenig, from the Simpson's credits, Steve Case (but my knowledge of him is limited) and of course Oprah - who is most widely known I would think. So I'll leave my judgement a little so that those of you who are more aware of the others on the list can make comments - I honestly can't comment on them from that point of view.