Hidden meaning in the Chariot?

[Saskia]

I don't think I could ever see the card this way outside of it being rx. I mean, if that's how it always is for you, then that's how it is. But I've never seen it defined as being fatalistic and lacking control. Quite the opposite. Waite remarks that the Chariot: "...is conquest on all planes--in the mind, in science, in progress, in certain trials of initiation...He is above all things triumph in the mind."

Believe me, I've been baffled and annoyed when I learned tarot and noticed that the Chariot does not mean its "usual" meaning for me - nor for my sitters when I read for others! I guess it's a difference of view point, thought. For me the focus is on the forces that try to steer my life to a direction that's not what I want or like (not necessarily negative, just not what's desired).

So, some action needs to be taken to address these outside forces and work with them, not against them.

Either let go and let them steer or set the pace. It's not always a bad thing, sometimes it's liberating to NOT try to force your will on things - say, it's better to ride out a slowdown in economy than try to find a new job right now.

Or, deliberate action needs to be taken to overrule or sidestep these controlling forces.

It's not always possible to win the battle with force or willpower, hence I talked about "stepping out of the Chariot". I'm not being fatalistic, but rather, realistic. Life comes with situations that can't be changed outright (say, I may lose a job and can't find another for a period of time), but there can be another way, a side road, a more strategic approach to get to the destination than forcing it (say, through networking and setting up a number of small income streams instead of a full-time job).

I believe we talk about the same concept but from a slightly different angle.

ETA: to me the animals pulling the chariot represent the 'outside forces' and it's never possible to control animals/circumstances with my physical force. There needs to be an element of trust, cunning and ability to make the animals want to go where I want them to go, i.e. work with them, not against them - not forcing or whipping them. I think we just articulate control in a bit different terms, Thirteen.

 

[PAMUYA]

For me the chariot means movement control,most of what was mentioned above. For me it is also about your conscience outer self, what you want others to see. To control emotions and actions in sync with each other. It is the development of your ego mask, what the world sees, not necessarily who you really are.

 

[Debra]

I've several times had the Chariot refer specifically to vehicles. No kidding. For example, a client asked several times over a year about expanding her soap making business. (She makes THE BEST soaps.)

Each time, there was that Chariot. Determination, will, etc. said I.

But what happened is, a year later, she bought an old airstream trailer and turned it into an absolutely adorable soap making lab.

I'm saying: sometimes the cards are very, very literal. Good luck telling when. Meanwhile, I'd suggest a safety check on your vehicle, just in case.

 

[firecatpickles]

I've several times had the Chariot refer specifically to vehicles. No kidding. For example, a client asked several times over a year about expanding her soap making business. (She makes THE BEST soaps.)

Each time, there was that Chariot. Determination, will, etc. said I.

But what happened is, a year later, she bought an old airstream trailer and turned it into an absolutely adorable soap making lab.

I'm saying: sometimes the cards are very, very literal. Good luck telling when. Meanwhile, I'd suggest a safety check on your vehicle, just in case.

Charito has shown up as an actual car accident. It turned out to be a near miss, thankfully, but my sitter was shared with me that it could have been rather nasty.

A marital counselor has been Chariot in a few instances, too.

 

[Tiggy-cat]

I don't think I could ever see the card this way outside of it being rx. I mean, if that's how it always is for you, then that's how it is. But I've never seen it defined as being fatalistic and lacking control. Quite the opposite. Waite remarks that the Chariot: "...is conquest on all planes--in the mind, in science, in progress, in certain trials of initiation...He is above all things triumph in the mind." Meaning he'd fought all fears and doubts and has none. He is convinced he can do it, and so does it. And in the Thoth deck the card "shows a strong will, a strong personality, and at its best, victory and success."

Far from being stuck in a bathtub, the charioteer is armored, and driving his high-powered vehicle like a race car driver in the best auto ever made. That's what chariots were back when—part race car, part tank. The charioteer was a man with lightening fast reflexes, laser focused attention, and a brilliant tactical mind; his horses were the best, the fastest, the most spirited; trained for battle and responsive to the slightest tug on the reins. He could maneuver them in and out of the melee, mowing down enemies, coming up cleverly from the side so the person with him could shoot with arrows or stab with a spear, all while staying safe and protected in his "bathtub." That's why this card is all about victory. It's not just that you're the fastest thing on the battlefield, you're also the deadliest, the most determined, and, thanks to that armor, virtually unstoppable.

You're a superhero and very much in control of your destiny. IF, that is, you take up the reins. If you never take up the reins however, if you're afraid of fighting for control of anything, then I could easily see how you might see this card as meaning you're stuck in the backseat of a car with no driver, your only option to leap out. But the vehicle being out of control is hardly it's fault; if you refuse to take the wheel, uncontrolled is all it can ever be.

It could depend on what position the Chariot shows up in. If it's an obstacle, something other than yourself, over which you can have ONLY very limited control, then I can see how it certainly could be running out of control and you're in danger of it running you right over. In a case like that, wouldn't you have to just jump out of the way and let it pass you by? I think much of it must depend on whether it represents the querent or something external.

 

[Tiggy-cat]

ETA: to me the animals pulling the chariot represent the 'outside forces' and it's never possible to control animals/circumstances with my physical force. There needs to be an element of trust, cunning and ability to make the animals want to go where I want them to go, i.e. work with them, not against them - not forcing or whipping them. I think we just articulate control in a bit different terms, Thirteen.

This sounds much like what I've understood of Strength, so is it fairly true to say that the Chariot could be the *outside* forces that you need to contend with (work with them or not let them run you over?) and Strength is the *inner* forces of yourself that you need to work with and not let them control you?

 

[Tiggy-cat]

I've several times had the Chariot refer specifically to vehicles. No kidding. For example, a client asked several times over a year about expanding her soap making business. (She makes THE BEST soaps.)

Each time, there was that Chariot. Determination, will, etc. said I.

But what happened is, a year later, she bought an old airstream trailer and turned it into an absolutely adorable soap making lab.

I'm saying: sometimes the cards are very, very literal. Good luck telling when. Meanwhile, I'd suggest a safety check on your vehicle, just in case.

Love it! True...

 

[think]

What you're saying is that you've got one horse that wants to push, and the other horse that wants to move on, and you don't want to do either of those, so your Chariot isn't going anywhere. No victory for you. If you can figure out where you want to go—and if it's not those two, maybe there's a third option? (Why not ask the tarot what a third option might be?), then you will have the willpower and focus to go there. But so long as you're indecisive, so long as you believe you haven't any power to do anything...you're stuck. Like a Chariot with no horses to pull it.

Then again, if you're right and it's a person, well, then you either need to ask the cards how to stop it from running you down, or just wait. The good thing about the Chariot is it can't keep going for long. It's for short distance races, not long marathons. So, this person will be done with their aggression and mowing down soon.

Hmm. Yeah, I guess.

So I did as you suggested and pulled cards for clarifying a third option, and again to ask how to overcome the chariot, and I got more confusing cards that seem to scream out "DO SOMETHING" (e.g. the Devil was one) but yet I still don't know what that is that I need to do.

Haha. Thanks for your thoughts, I appreciate them.

 

[think]

For me personally Chariot means that circumstances are somehow limiting or directing my behaviour: I'm sitting in this bath tub and can kick and push all I want but it won't budge, or won't change direction.

It can be another person having a strong influence in your life and how you'd like it to go (not fully according to your plans), or it can be life or circumstances in general (say, job markets, economy, rental markets depending on what you want to achieve or change and can't right now).

The advice of the Chariot is to either accept the situation and let go of trying to steer it, or hop off and leg it (or take the reins firmly): recognise the force that's controlling or affecting your life, and cut it off or somehow manage it to make it less powerful and regain your own power in life.

Oh, you know, that would ring a bell for me too. I feel exactly as though I'm sitting in a bath tub and kicking the water about, I'm going nowhere though because there's nowhere to go.

I still really think it is another person. This person has had an extremely large influence over my life in the past and they are like a 'bull in a china shop' kind of character. I can't steer it, and I have unsuccessfully (and halfheartedly) tried to take the reins and leg it.

It could well be that this card is telling me to once and for all, "drive" speedily and definitely, away, far away, from the situation.

Thanks for your thoughts Saskia.

 

[think]

I don't think I could ever see the card this way outside of it being rx. I mean, if that's how it always is for you, then that's how it is. But I've never seen it defined as being fatalistic and lacking control. Quite the opposite. Waite remarks that the Chariot: "...is conquest on all planes--in the mind, in science, in progress, in certain trials of initiation...He is above all things triumph in the mind." Meaning he'd fought all fears and doubts and has none. He is convinced he can do it, and so does it. And in the Thoth deck the card "shows a strong will, a strong personality, and at its best, victory and success."

Far from being stuck in a bathtub, the charioteer is armored, and driving his high-powered vehicle like a race car driver in the best auto ever made. That's what chariots were back when—part race car, part tank. The charioteer was a man with lightening fast reflexes, laser focused attention, and a brilliant tactical mind; his horses were the best, the fastest, the most spirited; trained for battle and responsive to the slightest tug on the reins. He could maneuver them in and out of the melee, mowing down enemies, coming up cleverly from the side so the person with him could shoot with arrows or stab with a spear, all while staying safe and protected in his "bathtub." That's why this card is all about victory. It's not just that you're the fastest thing on the battlefield, you're also the deadliest, the most determined, and, thanks to that armor, virtually unstoppable.

You're a superhero and very much in control of your destiny. IF, that is, you take up the reins. If you never take up the reins however, if you're afraid of fighting for control of anything, then I could easily see how you might see this card as meaning you're stuck in the backseat of a car with no driver, your only option to leap out. But the vehicle being out of control is hardly it's fault; if you refuse to take the wheel, uncontrolled is all it can ever be.

I think this also. And together with the six of wands, I'd be inclined to think that this is the interpretation.... except... the situation in my life is really not like this. If I'm to take the reins, I just can't see how. But I sense it is that. Maybe the answer will be revealed soon. Unless it is not even about that situation at all. Maybe it's about something else, I'm studying just now, maybe it's that, or any number of things. It's just that the other issue takes up SO MUCH of the bandwidth in my mind, I assume it must be to do with that, and indeed it comes up in questions about him and the relationship.