Is TdM Reformation Tarot?

[Huck]

Have I got this wrong?
Marseille type decks that we know of first appeared between 1490- 1550, most likely with what we have, as the Cary-Yale sheet which 'sort of' looks like a Marseille type circa 1500.
Then we have existing fragments also 'sort of' Marseille type for those 50 years from 1500 to 1550 (mainly Tarocchi-dates uncertain but possibly)
Then nothing Marseille type until the Noblet circa 1650.
So we have a gap of Marseille type of 100 years?

I would say, that the Cary Yale sheet, dated ca. 1500, is the only forerunner for the Marseille type (ca. 1650).
Which somehow opens the question, if this dating of the Cary-Yale is really correct. I really would wish to have informations, on which factors the dating is given.

Recently we found reports about letters of some engagement of the duke of Lorraine in 1598 ... he wanted to introduce Tarot cards production in his country of the same quality as of the card producer Catelin Geofroy in Lyon.

Geofroy produced a deck in 1557, which we know and it is not similar to the Marseille Tarot. It seems, that more than 40 years later this deck type possibly existed, still connected to the same producer. It also says, that the region of Lorraine (relatively near to Lyon) still hadn't a Tarot production then.

 

[Rosanne]

Thanks Huck- that is what I wanted to know! I could not figure in the quality of Geofroy's deck- no wonder it was preferred. It has always seemed strange to me the amount of poorly printed decks in the Marseille type.
As to dating- The fragments down the Sforza Castle- some are dated at the same time as the Cary-Yale sheet; what is strange is that in that haul from the Castle, the card fragments cover 300 years (if the dating is right) and completely different areas of production are represented and also the quality is diverse.
I should have added that one possibility of the 100 year gap is that it is not one hundred years at all- because the Cary-Yale sheet date might be wrong. Very weird- there is a card that they reckon is 18th Century and it is a Marseille type Sun card. So card fragments found in the Castle range in date from 1500 to 1799.
Maybe they should XRay the cards for medieval dust mite skeletons stuck in the paper pulp
Thanks again.
~Rosanne

 

[jmd]

For what it's worth, I personally agree (as long as "the only" is inverted with "only the") with Huck's point that it is very likely that "the Cary Yale sheet, dated ca. 1500, is the only forerunner for the Marseille type".

 

[Huck]

One idea might be, that the French production of Tarot cards existed (at least since 1505), but stayed weak during 16th century.

The fresh interest in 1598 from Lorraine might refer to the marriage of Maria de Medici (Italian princess) with the French king in 1600 - which possibly already was projected and expected in 1598.

Similar we have this interest of Wolgemut/Danhauser in Nurremberg 1493 (for a book-project "Roman triumphs"), when Bianca Maria Sforza married the German Emperor Maximilian. Parallel to this development we have a growing humanistic interest in Germany, although the new queen stayed a disappointment.

We had another Medici princess earlier marrying to the French court in 16th century, Katharina of Medici (1433 - she came young as a 14-years-old and only married the second heir, likely she wasn't taken at the begin in a similar way important as Maria di Medici). After Milan was lost (Pavia 1526) the French interest in Italian playing cards should have suffered.

The height of Lyonese card production is given with 1490-1510. When we compare this to the date 1512, when Milan was lost for France for the first time (it was overcome with the new king Franz I. 1516 a second time) ... this already might have broken the chain of development of French interest.

It's interesting to observe the Ferrarese production, when The French returned in 1516:

http://trionfi.com/0/p/23