Reviews of tarot decks and books (split from Wow! never had.. slating)

MysticalMoose

Hmm I also had a couple of extremely hostile & abusive PMs from a member who disagreed with me in a thread. I do think there was a little more than a bad temper going on there tho....:(

I have read this thread with interest, I don't often get involved in debates about the quality of the work of others but I do like to see people able to express their opinions & in a lot of cases learn from what I read here...as long as the opinions are delivered in a respectful way without rudeness & personal slight directed at the author/creator. Nothing that hasn't already been said I know :)
 

Baroli

Gregory said:
But see - how can we TELL ????? Seriously - at times there are people here whose English is so good it isn't till they use some word COMPLETELY wrong and people get upset about something that it becomes apparent that English is not their first language. I well remember the guy who proudly told me (mercifully before ever posting) that he was a womaniser. He thought it meant that he idolises women.... OOPS !

And some of these people can be from an English-speaking country. :D
 

cirom

Umbrae said:
"When one buys some of my artwork I hope it is because they will wish to learn from it and not because they think it will match their drapes!" -Christian Cardell Corbet, 1997

Oh boy, can I relate to that. I'm embarrased to say how many times I did'nt sell the piece in question because the partner of the potential buyer pointed out how it would clash with the sofa.

Back to the theme of the thread. So were all in agreement then are we. Anyone can say what they like, keep it honest but respectful. There now was that so difficult :)

On the good/ bad art issue. This really is an interesting one and I believe its more relevant and important that it may seem. While for many, I'm perceived as chairman of PTSAFS, the protection of the thin skinned artists feelings society, here on aeclectic. I nevertheless do have some very strong feeling about the quality or lack thereof on many of the creative offerings shown here. But for obvious reasons I feel its inappropriate for me to voice them. However I feel its VERY important that others do (albeit respectfully).

There is a grave risk on certain occasions, that to not do so will give some budding deck designers false hope. Publishers only accept a small percentage of the sumbissions they receive, as little as 3 or 4% I believe. So getting turned down by a publisher does not in of itself denote that a deck is not good, and indeed it may still have potential as self published project. But considering the risk of the up front money and effort that latter option can represent. Its important to do so with a reality check, not just a bank's one, excuse the pun. A thread of glowing well meaning compliments can be a ego trip but also a false indication as to the true potential of deck.

Blunt honesty could serve as a very useful counter balance and a blessing in disguise, but once again can also be achieved without having to impersonate Simon Cowell.
 

Sphinxmoth

We shouldn't be mixing up critiques such as one seeks, or more likely is *not* seeking in a forum like Tarot Deck Creation with reviews, which is what happens after your deck (or book or play or whatever) has come out and is available to be the amusement and plaything of the public. I see these as two different things.

oops. a major thunderstorm has bubbled up. you guys are off the hook for any more of my posting tonight, i have to shut down..

in haste,

~ moth
 

Umbrae

Sphinxmoth said:
Don't even get me started on apostrophes.
(Now is that a real poncho or is that a Sears poncho?)
 

All Is One

Basquiat

Anyone remember the movie "Basquiat" and what he told the couple looking to buy one of his paintings when the lady kept saying "Why did you use that color? That color....there is just too much of it"

(brown or green....whatever)

He said something along the lines of

"You people don't get to buy any of my paintings. Thay are no longer for sale to you."

They slunk off. And this was when he was still hungry and unknown.

Good for him.
 

Sphinxmoth

Umbrae said:
(Now is that a real poncho or is that a Sears poncho?)


the crux of the biscuit, you mean
 

All Is One

biscuit...basquiat

~was that a typo?~
 

All Is One

spinxmoth said:
We shouldn't be mixing up critiques such as one seeks, or more likely is *not* seeking in a forum like Tarot Deck Creation with reviews, which is what happens after your deck (or book or play or whatever) has come out and is available to be the amusement and plaything of the public. I see these as two different things.

I don't have a thing to add to that. I just thought it beared repeating.

I plan to put some part of that on a T-shirt.

Well said!
 

baba-prague

cirom said:
There is a grave risk on certain occasions, that to not do so will give some budding deck designers false hope.
...
Blunt honesty could serve as a very useful counter balance and a blessing in disguise, but once again can also be achieved without having to impersonate Simon Cowell.

Cirom, in theory maybe I agree, but there are some problems with asking people to do this. Firstly, many people here are simply not going to be good judges of whether or not a deck is publishable. For example - I've often noticed a tendency to compare with 1980s decks and say, "Well if that got published, yours should be accepted easily". In reality, the tarot publishing industry is now very different - I would guess fewer and fewer decks will be accepted into what's already a pretty saturated market. People here are mostly not industry professionals and may give sincere and well-meaning advice which is misleading. That's hard to change.

Those who are in the industry - and I would say can pretty much tell at a glance if a deck is mass-market publishable (it's an amusing fact that the only two times I sent off offers based on cards shown here - both in fact were never completed - the artists told me that US Games had already jumped in) don't want to sit in judgement in that way. Personally I am just not prepared to say in public, "Yes, No, Maybe" - particularly as we know that the answer would be "No" in 90-95% of cases. This is not a "put down" of the decks - it's just that the mass market these days has very particular criteria.

In private it's different. But I have found that even then I am cautious - when you say privately to someone that their baby is unlikely to get published they quite often find it upsetting and argue about it. And that's not the kind of conversation I want to get into - it can be exhausting and emotive all round. So - who wants to be the one to break that news with "blunt honesty"? You, me, Ric, others here in the industry? I think it's asking a lot.

I've just remembered that Aesop fable about "belling the cat" - seems rather appropriate here! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_the_cat

I would suggest that maybe the best thing would be - time permitting - to write a "sticky" (or it might be easier to start a sticky thread) about the realities of tarot publishing. This can be generic and everyone can read it. It should include facts and fictions about self-publishing, as well as mass market publishing. For example, it can't be said too often that even if you do get a "big" publisher and the deck is successful, the market is so niche that you probably won't make very much money. Overly optimistic deck designers about to sink their life savings into huge runs of their deck - or basing their plans on getting a "big" deal and becoming rich and famous ;) - can be gently advised to read the facts and apply some caution.

On the optimistic side, it may also be encouraging to see that some self-published decks DO take off, get market distribution and generate some profit. In a world in which the whole structure of publishing and distribution is rapidly changing, I would quite like to "talk up" some aspects of self-publishing - it can be a very good option for the kind of deck that is likely to sell well, but in limited quantities.

Anyway, a good sticky thread could reflect different opinions and at the same time, be a great basic overview of the industry.

Does that make sense?