RWS suitability for beginners - Why?

[RiccardoLS]

I have seen in a recent Thread that most people would suggest as a "first" deck or as a "beginner" deck the RWS.
I don't agree with that, but anyway I would like to know the reason why.

1: I know the importance, beauty, completeness, etc... of the RWS deck. I Know it's a great deck.
2: I realize it's the most important deck around.
3: I know as well there are a hundreads of books on the RWS or tailored on the RWS meanings.

What I would like to know is why the best deck, the most important deck, and the most written about deck should also be the best deck for a beginner.
I see the RWS as a must along the path of the Tarot person, but I would hardly think it to be the best first step.

Riccardo

 

[fairyhedgehog]

I started with a RWS clone (the Hanson Roberts) and it was the best deck for me I couldn't have connected with the RWS itself at first - it's too cerebral for me. But a RWS or its clones does have a lot of literature about it and for me at least scenes on the pips was an easy place to start.

What would be your ideal beginner's deck instead?

 

[Trogon]

Hi Riccardo,

To begin... I would be willing to bet that there will be quite a few people who disagree with your statement that the Rider-Waite deck is "the most important deck around." I'm guessing there are a lot of Tarot of Marseilles "fans" that would strongly disagree...

However, that wasn't really the point of your posting. My feeling on this issue is that the RWS is so often recommended as a deck for beginners for 2 reasons. One of these is your #3; "... there are a hundreads of books on the RWS or tailored on the RWS meanings." This means there is a large base from which a person can start their journey in the Tarot. They will have many resources in many different formats from which they can learn the basic symbolisms and card meanings, if this is the method by which they chose to learn.

Of course the drawback to this is the confusion which we occasionally see here at Aeclectic when a person who is just beginning their journey into Tarot becomes confused by this avalanche of information. It can become difficult for the Tarot prospector to pan out and refine the nuggets of knowledge for which they are searching.

I think that another reason that the RWS is often recommended as a deck for the beginner is that it gives a very good introduction to Tarot symbolism. Many of the symbols seen in the cards are fairly easy to understand with a little bit of study. And, as one begins to understand some of the symbolism, new symbols are taken note of and understood. This allows the Tarot student to continue to learn and expand on the knowledge gained in their earlier endeavors. They can continue to find nuances and new depths as they continue their studies.

Then, as they expand and learn, they can start branching out into other decks and learning new symbolisms used in those decks. For instance... I always recommend the Röhrig Tarot... but I'm not sure I would recommend it as a deck for the beginner because of the myriad of differing symbolisms used by the artist and the depths which it explores.

 

[Silverlotus]

I've never really used a RWS deck. I have the Tiny Universal Waite, which I have used once. All my other decks have been clones. And in all honestly, I think I would suggest a clone to a beginner before I would suggest a RWS deck.

Why? Well, the pictures are not very attractive. This may sound silly, but it can be difficult to connect to a deck and stick with tarot if you don't like the pictures. Also, some of the symbolism is a bit to esoteric for a beginner. Will they even notice the yods falling from the Tower, and will they even care?

There are a lot of books available for the RWS deck, but if a beginner buys a good clone, the books can be easily tailored to the deck they are using. I also think it's a good idea to buy the book for your deck because it lets you know the artist was thinking when they designed the deck. I'm actually thinking about buying a Tarot deck as a gift for my mother, and it won't be a RWS deck. But it will be a clone that uses clear symbols and follows the RWS tradition, perhaps the Robin Wood or Hanson-Roberts.

 

[Minos]

There's about three different ways that people read tarot, and three general categories of deck that suit them best.

Most people seem to read more or less intuitively. RWS clones, art decks, etc. are all very good for this style of reading.

Some people use esoteric attributions, astrology, qabalah, etc. Thoth, BOTA, the various Golden Dawn decks tend to be best suited for this.

For others, the tarot as a tradition with a history is important, and they tend to favor Marseilles and other 'classic' decks.

Of course, everyone mixes and matches a bit of all these styles, but most people tend to favor one over the others in practice.

RWS bridges all three of these categories. The pips have scenes, and the deck is perfectly well suited to intuitive reading, but there's also plenty of occult symbolism to delve into. It isn't as close to the Marseilles tradition as it could be, but it is closer than most clones, art decks and occult decks.

So with RWS, you can keep your options open and explore all kinds of different angles.

Therefore if I have no other information about someone, I think that RWS is the safest recommendation.

However:

If I know something about the beginner in question, that might change.

If I know they devour weird books by the truckful and love to get into tangled paradoxes, I'd recommend Thoth.

If I know they're a history freak, I'd say Marseilles.

If I was reasonably certain they'd just throw the book away and roll with it, I'd say go with whatever grabs you.

But for all of them, I'd recommend RWS as at least a second choice.

There's also something to be said for having a tarot lingua franca, however arbitrary. For better or worse, RWS is that lingua franca in at least the English-speaking tarot world.

Just my $0.02

 

[RiccardoLS]

Re: Re: RWS suitability for beginners - Why?

I think that another reason that the RWS is often recommended as a deck for the beginner is that it gives a very good introduction to Tarot symbolism.

I'm beginning to realize that this may well be the reason I don't like the RWS as a first deck. Tarot symbolism is just one of the many facets of Tarot.
As the RWS - and all the literature behind it - gives so much weight to the "symbols", that so powerful imprinting would risk to just blind the newbie to the other different facets.

Oh well... I would never suggest the Thoth as a beginner deck either, even if I could be sure the person I'm suggesting it too, will love it. I think that person will evenually came to the Thoth... but actually starting there?

It seem to me like suggesting the RWS is like saying: "as you will eventually get to the RWS, it's better to save time and skip passages". I think that like most things, the journey is more important that the end. I would rather suggest a deck that gives questions rather than offering the answers. For instance I would probably suggest an RWS clone - one without too much presumption - so that a person may beneft of most of the literature on the RWS, but at the same time learning there are more decks, and more path to walk with. Having to adapt the generic RWS menaing to his slightly different deck will be his first exercise in finding his own way.
I would not suggest the Marseille, as well, because one should begin to work from images, and later - if that suits him - he will get to the systhesis of historical tarot readings.

Riccardo
(the usual confused self)

 

[Major Tom]

Re: Re: Re: RWS suitability for beginners - Why?

I think that like most things, the journey is more important than the end.

I knew I liked you Riccardo and now I know the reason.

Because I agree with you, I'd have to recommend that a beginner create their own deck. And for that journey, I'd give them each a Marseilles, an RWS and a Thoth - maybe even a copy of the Book of Tokens.

 

[Diana]

Re: Re: Re: RWS suitability for beginners - Why?

I would not suggest the Marseille, as well, because one should begin to work from images, and later - if that suits him - he will get to the systhesis of historical tarot readings.

Why should one begin to work from images?

The reason I would highly recommend a Marseilles to a beginner, would be because it would precisely allow him to avoid images altogether to start with - images that will imprint in his/her mind forever and ever. To me, this is a great advantage when one starts to learn Tarot - no remote controlled/micro-wave kind of images that remove a lot of the thinking process.

I would say: start out with a Marseilles and then if you want to, go and explore all the other decks.

 

[Aoife]

Re: Re: Re: Re: RWS suitability for beginners - Why?

The reason I would highly recommend a Marseilles to a beginner, would be because it would precisely allow him to avoid images altogether to start with - images that will imprint in his/her mind forever and ever.

Diana, you'll recall that a couple of weeks ago I decided to focus on learning the Marseilles system - but in recent days the 'image decks' have seduced me back.

I seem to veer from one extreme to the other - wanting hardly any symbolism to a deck crammed full of it!

I think the main problems for me with the Marseilles are
- the dearth of material I can research
- a problem with pinning down an understanding of the correlation with numbers - or a framework upon which to build.

I need a framework if I am to blot out the images and think for myself. I would love to concentrate on the Marseilles but I need an overview.

Do you have any suggestions for written material? I know you've said before that most is written in French - but do you know of any English translations?

Eve

 

[Mimers]

The opinion of a beginner

Wow, a lot of different opinions and all have valid points.

I started out with the RW deck and Mary Greer's book Tarot for Yourself. It was really quite by chance I picked these 2, not based on any recomendations. I went to B&N, saw they sold tarot cards, browsed through their selection, and picked the Universal Rider Waite. I had no idea it was the most popular deck. It just happened to be the one that appealed to me most. I almost bought the Hanson-Roberts, but opted for RW because it was less "fairytailish". I looked through the LWB, I just thought, "what the heck??? I don't want to memorize key words" and went and selected Tarot for Yourself. I chose this book because it was a workbook, and I wanted to become involved with the cards not just learn the meanings.

I tend to lean towards Riccardo's opinion. I really think that by learning with Mary Greer's book, you can use just about any deck. I think it is more important for the new Tarot reader to feel something with their deck rather than memorize meanings of established symbols. That can come later.

That doesn't change the fact that I prefer the RW next to any other deck except maybe my Osho Zen. Vision Quest is a close runner up too.

I think that now, 8 months later, if someone asked me for a recomendation, I would recomend highly Mary K Greer's book and for the person to browse sights like this one or Passages, Wicce, etc... until they saw a deck that appealed to them personally.

Mimers