Tarot growth cycles for the deceased

[Ffortiwn]

I'm accumulating family growth cycle data and have 'accidentally' computed cycle info for periods after an individual's departure from this plane. I found Angeles Arrien's help in this area to be tremendous, yet her Handbook is lacking in depth for this practice. Is there literature which covers growth cycle theory and philosophy etc. in greater depth? I am curious to know how meaningful or meaningless this kind of data actually is, when put up alongside other cycles within the same lineage or family for example, and I am also keen on picking up more information of all kinds in this area.

 

[dadsnook2000]

No answer, but a comment

I can't answer your question directly. However, I've worked in Astrology for very many years, over half of my life, and have worked with cycles quite a bit. What I've found is that a person's accomplishments and teachings have a life of their own, even after death. These active cycles can be read in both the deceased chart and in the charts of others which have similar patterns and sensitive points.

Even in Astrology, there is very little on cycles. I've also found that an event seems to "show up" or "happen" when the original conjunction between two planets that symbolize its event-meaning reaches certain cyclic points. For instance, the most recent Saturn-Pluto conjunction accurately reflects and links to the several major terrorist events -- '92 World Trade Center bombing, 911 airplane attack, USS Cole bombing, Madrid Train Bombings, etc.

So, I'm not surprised at your findings. Keep at it. Dave

 

[Ffortiwn]

Yes, that's exactly what fascinates me, thank you for the validation.

The key question here for me is, do the symbols (as found in systems such as Astrology and Tarot) still apply to souls who are no longer bound to the earthly realm? Since this is such a big question, I'll assume yes, but I'm curious to know if anyone wiser than I has composed their thoughts in this area.

Many people express an impulse to draw on their ancestors for assistance, both unconsciously and consciously, every day. Even those who don't believe in the practices we talk about here. It seems reasonable to assume, for me, that these people may also benefit more by tracking more detailed familial profile and cyclical information and applying that to their own daily lives.

It's almost like reading the daily weather report...

...which segways into another question I was going to get around to posting somewhere - is it possible to refine the Tarot growth cycles to focus on smaller periods of time than a year?

 

[psychicbody]

I dont think something as mundande as Astrology can tell you about a person who is already dead, because the planets are only physical things. But, they could determine the growth or effect a person's ideas/legacy still has on this world.
The Tarot is a little different, because the "forces" that apply to that are not physical and cant be physically measured. So, they may be able to attune to someone, after they have died.

 

[Ffortiwn]

I dont think something as mundande as Astrology can tell you about a person who is already dead, because the planets are only physical things. But, they could determine the growth or effect a person's ideas/legacy still has on this world.

I understand that a fundamental difference is the fact that, for the most part, we can easily associate Astrological influences with the corresponding, physical, celestial bodies, but I'm not sure this necessarily lands Astrology in the "mundane" category as compared with Tarot. These are both symbolic systems which tap into the collective unconscious, are they not? My gut tells me that whatever rules that apply to the forces operating within Astrology, may also apply in Tarot, although I could be wrong. Very interesting philosophical discussion.

 

[psychicbody]

"Mundane" means "worldly" so Astrology does fit that description. Be that as it may, we dont know if there are coresponding planets or symbols in the afterlife. Not to mention, the results of the Tarot are completly random, but with Astrology, we know exactly where a celestial body will appear and where its path leads; see what I mean? The path a certain body takes is predictable, however the path a soul takes may not be so predictable, or measureable. The "collective consiousness" is a non-physical concept and can relate to planets, but we cant say for certain that planets actually relate to it, because only one is a physically measurable presence.
The Tarot, as well as other forms of divination are a bit more mysterious. No one knows exactly what actually determines an auspicous result, however it is safe to suggest that such forces exist physically and not physically.

 

[Teheuti]

I'm accumulating family growth cycle data and have 'accidentally' computed cycle info for periods after an individual's departure from this plane. I found Angeles Arrien's help in this area to be tremendous, yet her Handbook is lacking in depth for this practice. Is there literature which covers growth cycle theory and philosophy etc. in greater depth?

My book, _Tarot Constellations: Patterns of Personal Destiny_ does so in great depth. It's out of print so you'll have to find a used copy. It doesn't talk about post-death experiences, however. The idea fascinates me so I'd love to know how you see it.

Mary

 

[Ffortiwn]

Mary, I found your book on the web and have a copy on the way. I am really looking forward to reading it. Something tells me I've read something by you before, but I can't put my finger on it (edit: it was Understanding the Tarot Court which I actually just purchased a couple of weeks ago and haven't read yet). Anyway, thanks! As my own ideas develop, I will surely report back on this thread. I just need to build up more exposure to Tarot in general, as well as play around with how to arrange the charts correctly. (I have so many questions, for example, is it more or less useful to restrict a comparison of multiple growth cycles to a specific lineage? What if individuals from other bloodlines happen to have energy which appears to resonate strongly within one family?).

psychicbody, I hear you but I still believe you are making assumptions which I feel compelled to challenge. For instance, I have never believed the results of Tarot are completely random and in fact, I do not even believe that random is completely random. This article describes interesting research along those lines. Secondly, what if every celestial object is also represented outside of the plane we live in here? As a Persian poet has written, "The Celestial Universe is so formed that the under world reflects the upper world." That is to say, whatever exists in the afterlife is also reflected here in our phenomenal world. This whole subject is kind of a big debate though.

 

[psychicbody]

psychicbody, I hear you but I still believe you are making assumptions which I feel compelled to challenge. For instance, I have never believed the results of Tarot are completely random and in fact, I do not even believe that random is completely random. This article describes interesting research along those lines. Secondly, what if every celestial object is also represented outside of the plane we live in here? As a Persian poet has written, "The Celestial Universe is so formed that the under world reflects the upper world." That is to say, whatever exists in the afterlife is also reflected here in our phenomenal world. This whole subject is kind of a big debate though.

I think I was misinterpreted.
The actual cards and what order those cards are drawn ARE random: we dont know what they will be, before a reading. This does not negate their auspicious indications, or that "destiny" chose them - it means the physical cards are drawn at random. It is just like rolling dice, or playing the lottery.
As for planets: they are not randomly moving around in space; we can accuratly trace a celestial body's path. We know exactly where each planet will be, decades from now.

What we dont know, is where or when a specific card will show up. Out of 77 possible others, it is statisticly impossible to always know when a specific card will show up. This is the math: 1/78 = 1.28% - this probability decreases with the number of cards drawn, as in you would have to "know" exactly what card goes in what position, in a spread.

 

[jmd]

Perhaps, to add to the comments about the planets, to talk of their physical aspects is the equivalent to talking of Tarot as no more than 'bits of cardboard and pigments'. Of course their physical manifestation is that too.

There are certainly views that see in the planets, foundationally, spiritual beings (Cf, for one example amongst many, Steiner's The Spiritual Individualities of the Planets).

Of course, this does not take away from the difference pointed out of the regularity (and hence predictability) of planetary motion, as opposed to the unpredictability of card selection. Whether random or not, however, is another matter. 'Predictability' is an epistemological notion, whereas 'regularity' (and 'randomness') an ontological one.

In that sense, there may indeed be unpredictability of card selection without these being random, despite the fact that in terms of our knowledge as to which card is to come, we may perhaps do no better than give a probability statement based as if it were random.