kwaw said:
Uhm..the post to which Huck replied, originally post 84, has disappeared? I have pm'd moderator JMD.
I think you underestimate Huck [that there is an emperor, a pope] the educational potential of the series. Also Pier Decembrio did not complete the translation of his father, his fathers was a finished product widespread and well known, Piers was a new translation although probably he also used his fathers as aid in translation.
Kwaw
Yes, the post has disappeared, which would be a pity, cause it contained worthful information.
Well, we've the time, when soon the education of very young talented children was taken rather serious. Examples are Galeazzo Maria, Marcello's son Valerio, who died young (both in the 50's), Pico de Mirandola (in the 60's). The dream of the wonder children.
Why do you think, that I underestimate the educational value?
... We don't know, what the real concept and content of the Cary-Yale was. We only know of 11 trumps. So a judgment is difficult, anyway.
The pictures itself are not a great riddle, interesting would have been the teachings, which were associated to the figures. But these more complex argumentation was not in the deck - either it was given by a tutor ... or even explicitly by an accompanying book or text directly produced for the deck ... as we see it by the work of Marziano da Tortona, who described the Michelino deck. We know this text and we realize, that it is not a long text. And we know, that the price for this production was exorbitantly high ... so one may conclude, that surely not all Trionfi deck versions were accompanied by a text ... but it happened, we've examples.
When we take Lazzarelli's work, we see a text accompanied by pictures. Perhaps the pictures were modeled to become later part of a playing card deck, but we don't know of any production. We think, that Lazzarelli's work happened before the production of the Mantegna series, other see, that Lazzarelli only took pictures of the already existent series. Maybe that, as it is, in this case it's recognizable, that the whole aims at higher education.
In the echecs amoureux, earlier than the Michelino deck, we've a complex encyclopedia, a very long text, not comparable to Martiano's short treatise ... and some pictures connected to it in later editions, partly with similarities to the Mantegna Tarocchi. In this case it's very clear a picture-context-connection in a great educational enterprize.
So we've examples, that picture-series and great educational context did unite ... but can we be sure, that it was always so ..? Generally it seems, that card-playing at the courts was minor playing, the higher art was connected to chess and other more expensive enjoyment, as we see it at the court of Galeazzo Maria: tennis, jousts, an own music chapel with 22 members and some of the most talented musicians of the time between them. This were really expensive hobbies and things like playing cards were minor occupations, much cheaper and good enough for women and children.
So ... the original context were women and children world, a "higher educational context" should be somewhere in the background, but not dominant.
Let's look on Filippo Maria's playing world: He played with cards in his youth (so says Decembrio, who was to young to observe it) .... okay, this should have happened with decks, which we don't know. In ca. 1425 he produced the Michelino deck ... so he had a proven great interest in cards, right?
But accidently Filippo Maria was 33 years then, a little too old for cards. But in this year he got a daughter and likely the Trionfi festivities in June 1425 were likely mainly done to celebrate this circumstance (other first-child-celebrations in the Italian nobility of 15th century are known, usually for the male heir). And he produced a deck, the Michelino deck ... likely to educate the girl in that, what was just in vogue as an educational context, and that was Greek-Roman mythology.
And he made the Cary-Yale ... for the marriage of that same girl Bianca-Maria, now 16 years old.
And he played cards with Alfonso of Aragon 1435, so it is noted ... well, the situation should have been interesting, Alfonso likely new Spanish rules, so card playing could fascinate for the moment.
The playing truth of Filippo Maria Visconti is, that he had an own chess club at his court, as it is noted for 1427 and 1429.
And his colleague in Ferrara, Niccolo d'Este, is noted as a chess-player with some skill, but when it comes to cards, so usually a female participant is noted, mostly Parisina. Well, in that we talk of Ferrara, the court with the most old Trionfi notes, that we know of.
In Savoy 1430 - not far away to Milan and related to Milan, as Filippo's wife was from Savoy - card playing was prohibited for men, with the exception, that they were allowed to play with women.
...
well, the last sentence should be read twice.
The conditions are natural ... women don't find usually so much concentration and engagement for complex games ... they've other strong sides. Talking with the other wifes and getting a lot of other informations, which men actually believe to be general rubbish, for instance.
Go in a chess club, and you'll find usually many men. Go in a bridge club and you find many women.
Realize that, and you understand the Savoian law of 1430.