THE DEVIL ( good omen for marriage)

Zedrex

I'm very encouraged and pleased at some of the input in this thread :)

I was just about to start a thread asking whether everyone here was just reading out of a LWB for their tarot "understanding" because of the sheer number of times I've seen the Devil card reduced to the word "addiction" lately. As I've posted elsewhere, the Devil is an incredibly misunderstood trump, is definitely more complex than reductive LWB catchphrases, and can be an incredibly good card for contexts such as marriage.

One of the recurring motifs in many Devil iterations, especially the Rider-Waite, is the couple - the same couple from The Lovers. The difference is that VI The Lovers shows them in Eden, naive and idealistic in their choices, while XV The Devil depicts them as having sexual understanding. Unlike The Lovers, their commitment is one that understands consequences and understands the earthy as well as the ideal.

They are bound, but typically have a hand free. They can leave of their own volition. While this can sometimes represent the concept of not knowing that you have the power to free yourself, it can also mean that you *do* know and that the "bondage" is your own choice, a commitment you willingly make - informed and understanding of what it means and free to leave at any time.

Unless it's contextualised by unambiguous negativity in either the question or the other cards in a spread, I'd be reading it for marriage as a very good indicator indeed.
 

Zedrex

Probably also worth mentioning that while the couple mirror the Lovers (15 reducing to 6 numerologically), the Devil himself is a higher "octave" of The Heirophant (numerically 5/15) and that the figure in the middle of the image is a mirror of the character in The Heirophant. You'll notice that their poses are extremely similar in the Rider-Waite.

Whille The Heirophant might represent the trappings of a marital institution - the legality, the outer appearance, the societal role and the "structure" of marriage", it doesn't particularly speak to the experience from the inside - the knowledge, the intimacy, the practice as opposed to the theory of it. The Heirophant is the idea of marriage in the eyes of society - the Devil is a better descriptor of how it actually works from the inside.

The trumps in the first septenary of the major arcanes (cards 1-7) are roles, ideas, expressions of self, images in society. The second septenary (cards 8-14) are more about personal characteristics in the way we relate to others - more about the practice of qualities rather than the ideas of them. As a result, they tend to be more complex "bittersweet" and double-sided concepts than the ideas of the first 7. I think that The Heirophant and Lovers are more surface/shallow depictions of marriage roles than the deeper stuff that The Devil implies.
 

Thirteen

Different but equally deep

I think that The Heirophant and Lovers are more surface/shallow depictions of marriage roles than the deeper stuff that The Devil implies.
The Hierophant relates to a marriage's social conventions (i.e. religious and cultural rituals that acknowledge the union and the new position of the participants in the society). Which may, at first glance seem shallow/superficial, but on further examination can be quite deep. Traditions can have powerful meanings not just to a society but to individuals; and our culture can make it as hard to extraditing oneself from a marriage as the Devil's "addictive" energy. So, while the Hierophant's traditions can be "surface," they could, equally, be very deep, especially to religious participants who see such traditions as relating to their connection to the divine (a man's marriage to a woman being related to Jesus married to his church, for example).

Meanwhile, the Lovers is about how someone recognizes a twin psyche or spirit. What that recognition might lead to *after* the two are united isn't the purview of the Lover's card, but that doesn't make the card superficial. Again, it could be a very powerful psychic energy that keeps them together as strongly as that energy of the Devil.

Granted, these two cards *can* apply to participants in an arranged marriage who haven't met till the wedding. Not so with the Devil which has to be about an on-going relationship. This, however, doesn't mean that the devilish attachment is "deep" so much as difficult when it comes to ending it. Which is to say, we all have our favorite cards, but as cool as the Devil is, and as far up in number (Qabalistically that actually puts it lower down on the Earthly plane and farther from the esoteric), I wouldn't rank it as more deep or less shallow than the Lovers or Hierophant when it comes to relationships. The trio, I think, are different, but equally deep and complex angles on the topic.
 

Zedrex

Sorry if I offended any cards with my choice of words. Perhaps instead of 'deeper' I might have said 'further' as I'm not insinuating any ideas in the trumps are shallow - just some pursue and unpack certain concepts and take them a bit further.

If the Lovers *did* just mean the literal meaning of union or "twin psyche", then I would say that one *is* deeper than that. But The Lovers, like the rest of the deck, isn't that one-dimensional. Interesting when people defend the depth of a card with simple reductive LWB attributions
 

Thirteen

If the Lovers *did* just mean the literal meaning of union or "twin psyche", then I would say that one *is* deeper than that. But The Lovers, like the rest of the deck, isn't that one-dimensional. Interesting when people defend the depth of a card with simple reductive LWB attributions
What I find interesting is your assumption that because someone doesn't want to take hours writing up a long post about a card that they aren't aware of its complexity or depth. But then, interestingly enough, I presumed that you didn't NEED me to go on at length in order to understand my point about the Lovers card. That you had a good enough tarot background and body of knowledge to get what I was saying with only a brief paragraph. Was I wrong?
 

Holly doll

hi i would just like to ask your opinions on the devil in a relationship spread i read somewhere it was a good omen for marriage as i have been doing a few spreads to see if there is any chance of a reconciliation between a man and his ex wife it keeps coming up in the future i am seeing this as them getting back together or am i reading it wrong what is your take on the devil in a future position in a relationship spread between husband and wife who are seperated?

My immediate take on this card is "better the Devil you know"... They mightn't "like" the other persons habits etc. - but its what they know; so maybe they are "uncomfortably comfortable" reconciling, rather than being alone or exploring other options.
 

ravenest

I'm very encouraged and pleased at some of the input in this thread :)

I was just about to start a thread asking whether everyone here was just reading out of a LWB for their tarot "understanding" because of the sheer number of times I've seen the Devil card reduced to the word "addiction" lately. .

< jumps up and down in background waving arms>

I hope I haven't wasted ALL my time here being his advocate! ;)

... Maybe check some opinions in the Thoth threads?