thoth

[orczy]

The best info on the Crowley deck is his own book, The Book of Thoth. This is certainly the best book on the kabbalistic tarot. Thye main problem with Crowley deck is you have to believe in other Crowleyien stuff, like The Book of the Law. That was a hard leap for me, so eventually I left the deck in it's box.
When I used to use it, I found it great for readings of a spiritual nature, but useless if about something in everday life. I found the people I read for who wanted to use the deck were people who were more intense and emotional I guess.

 

[Thirteen]

On the one hand, I think you're making far too much of Crowley's reputation. Compared to certain rock stars with their drugs and sexual exploits, he was a piker. Crowley got his rep, in part, thanks to the conservativism of his time when just about everything he did was bound to be shocking. He also got it thanks to his own desire to play the "bad boy" (calling himself "the Beast"). Not to say he was a nice guy or that you'd want to hang with him, but really, what is the very worst thing he did? Why does he scare you?

Know why he doesn't scare me? I heard a recording of him chanting. It was done in his later years of course. Know what he sounded like? A little old Scottish grandmother. And there he was on the cover in his silly red robes, looking like a little Scowling Scotsman. Please! He's like one of those old men who scare little kids and then smirk about it. If you stand up to him, however, you find out that he's really pretty fascinating. Brilliant mind; you can learn a lot from him. But don't let him pull his tricks on you. He was never *that* bad or *that* scary.

Now, on the other hand, I won't argue that he wasn't an intense, charismatic and very powerful mage, and I'm sure that comes through in the cards. It's what makes them scary when the art, NOT DONE BY CROWLEY, is lovely. The colors are bright, the images, in some cases, gentle. Have you thought that as much as Crowley is in that deck, so is the artist? Why don't you think she's calling to you as much as Crowley?

One thing no one can argue, Crowley is the next step up in learning the tarot. RW is basic. But Crowley is graduate. Using his deck and reading his book on Tarot is like going through an intense graduate course on the subject. You never look at tarot the same, and you go to the next level up as a reader, at least, that was my experience--of course, the truely scary thing about learning more about the Tarot is that you begin to realize how little you know Understand, I don't use the deck, I never did. But I learned from it, I still do.

My thoughts on this deck calling to you--it's a challenge. You can let it scare you, or you can say, "Stop it grandpa! I'm here to learn, teach me!" I can attest that the lessons are well worth learning if you decide to go in that direction.

 

[faunabay]

"Stop it Grandpa!"??? LOL
Thirteen, that's great.

After I stopped laughing I had to admit to myself you made a pretty good point. Alot of Crowley's "badness" was the time he lived in. I do agree he was probably pretty powerful, but in today's standards I don't think he'd be thought of as being terrible.

I have used the deck a couple of times and gotten a pretty negative reading once and a positive one the next time. I do still believe it's trying to pass on some sort of knowledge, so will continue to use them as I can.

But now whenever I get nervous I'll just think about ol' grandpa trying to scare the kiddies, get over it, and just concentrate on the knowledge being passed on, not the old "scarys".

Thanks, Thirteen

 

[ammegand]

This was the second deck I ever owned. I think that a lot of people tend to think that the deck is negative, or scary. Honestly, I think it is a balanced deck. or tries to be. meaning that there are both good and evil, but more importantly truthful cards. I was surprised to find a bit of support for this theory from the Tarot of the Spirit, by Joyce and Pamela Eakins. The TOS is heavily influenced by the Crowley-Harris deck, to the point where if you lay out all of the cards side by side you will perhaps see just 2 or 3 that are different in a major way. Anyway, the TOS is a good point for those that are a little uncomfortable with the Thoth.
Another small point is that the imagery is presented in a fashion that is not to 'get a happy vibe' meaning that its not a light hearted tarot deck like some are, Osho Zen comes to mind (my most used deck BTW).
Another thing is that the color on the US GAMES version is still horrid, though not as bad as it used to be, but still not as good as the Swiss version, which believe me makes so much difference that I could hardly believe that it was the same deck. The swiss version for those who do not know has real grey borders, not the greenish tinged borders the us games decks have.
*this is really a major difference*
Please try TOS if you have not, it will open Crowleys deck up to you, and open the Book of Thoth (book) up to you also. The Deck can be purchased through B+N for 5.00 right now, and the Book through discountnewage books.com for $7.00! which is about 1/2 price. The book I found to be very thought provoking, and well worth it, especially to those whom are beginning tarot who want a honest approach to how the Tarot works, scientifically, spiritually, psychologically.
peace

 

[truthsayer]

thirteen mentioned hearing a recording of crowley chanting. after i read that i remembered thinking how much i wanted to hear such a recording. well, i got my wish! on this show that's called the world's scariest places w/ host linda blair. they showed pictures of him at varous ages and times plus played the recording. it showed what some of his old hangouts look like today. one is in italy i believe. ppl are really scared of the place but apparently some ppl go there to do rituals still. it was interesting to hear and see these things but i wasn't bowled over by a sense of evil about him. i think he prob created that rep to keep curious ppl away. but i do feel even weirder reading w/ the thoth deck after seeing that show. i think that show helped me feel more in tune w/ what kind of person he was. if i were to meet him today i believe i wouldn't feel attracted to his spiritual methods at all. his beliefs and behaviors just don't fit in w/ who i am. perhaps this means i am most comfortable w/ decks and their creaters that reflect most accurately who and what i perceive myself to be. for example, i think i would enjoy meeting mary hanson-roberts or caitlin matthews b/c i relate to their decks so well.

 

[Greenman]

hello, i'm the new guy.
i have been working with the tarot seriously for about nine years now, and i own quite a few decks. many of them are interesting, but i work almost exclusively with the Thoth deck.
alot of people have issues with Crowley, and understandably so. the man was an egotist, a womanizer, and an all around pr*ck.
but he was also a genius, and if nothing else he did was worth a damn, his work with the tarot was, in my opinion, landmark. the Book of Thoth, one of his last writings, was the culmination of over thirty years of study. and again in my opinion, the Thoth deck is far and away the most remarkable work in the field. one must simply get past the unpleasant baggage that follows the man.
but this deck is not entirely Crowley's triumph. we must not forget that Lady Frieda Harris was a very interesting character too. just to have been able to work in close quarters with AC for five years makes her a an amazing story!
but her meeting with Crowley was not entirely accidental. she had been working with a number of fringe occult groups dealing in transcendental math, and this shows up quite intensely in the Thoth tarot. for more info on her and her interest in 'projective synthetic geometry' see;
http://hungry.piranho.de/claas/olive_e.html

you may see the Thoth tarot in a whole new light! it is so much more than just another system of divination.

 

[truthsayer]

greenman,
i really appreciate you posting the addy for that article. you are so right! it does throw an entirely different light on the thoth deck. i find myself curious to find out more about the life of lady frieda harris and the creation of the thoth deck. do you have any more websites you can share? i can't believe that i never noticed the use of geometry mixed in w/ the art of the thoth deck. the similarities b/t lady frieda's paintings and olive's geometry is astounding. it's good to know that frieda wasn't completely dominated by crowley in her creation of the thoth deck paintings. i think it's mary k. greer who wrote a book about the women of the golden dawn. i'm really burning to get the book and learn more about them! all i've ever read is about the men. it's interesting to note that the artist behind the rider waite deck is also a woman-pamela coleman smith. i realize it was a sign of the times that harris and smith didn't get the credit they were due for the tarot decks they helped create. it still bothers me. they had to of been remarkable women!!!!!

 

[faunabay]

Fascinating Greenman. Thanks so much. I'm with truthsayer - please pass on other such articles if known.
You know I'm going to be playing and laying out my cards now. lol