Torn between Christianity and... Something else?

[Padma]

If you don't mind me asking, are you still a member of the Catholic church or have left completely?

I am glad that you liked my mother's advice

I am not a practicing member, no. I have not been to church in years. I define my spirituality in broader terms now, but as I mentioned, I still love Mary. And if I happen to be touristing in another country, I always check out the cathedrals! There is still a part of me that loves the architecture, the incense, the hushed and remote feel of thousands of silent, pleading prayers hanging in the atmosphere...

 

[Saskia]

Hi Citrin, I understand what you're going through. I've also been drawn to "witchy" stuff since I was a pre-teen, including interest towards all things paranormal.

I had this great urge a few years ago to join the Greek Catholic church, mainly because of the beautiful rituals, masses and the decorative church, paintings, artwork.... I felt that there is an element of deep aesthetic and spiritual experiences missing from my life as a half-baked Lutheran Christian, as Lutheran masses are very plain, almost office- or business-like.

However, I turned away from Christianity mainly because I couldn't bear other people dictating me what and how to believe. I feel in my core that if there is a god, s/he or it is about love, harmony and unity: everything that promotes that between people (and the flora and fauna), is the right path, and everything that promotes discord, disharmony and separation from each other and earth is the wrong path. As simple as that.

I've read a lot of books about reincarnation, near death experiences and past life regression hypnosis, and have come to believe that we are all children of this universe and there is no "Judgement Day" where we'll be doomed. Also, there is not one correct religion. We all experience life from our own unique viewpoints and all experiences are equally valuable.

People from all religions - and also atheists - seem to experience the same after death: feeling of utter peace and bliss, going to light, seeing what their life caused to others, learning about it, and then coming back here on earth to learn some more and do better next time. I've come to believe in karma and reincarnation - not because of some ancient texts, but because 5% of people on earth (according to studies) have gone through an NDE where they saw what I described, regardless of their culture, religion etc.

However, I'm still not a hardcore believer and I have moments of fear of death (what if it's annihilation after all?) but I'm not afraid about "believing in a wrong way" anymore. I'm sure that if a god exists, s/he/it can't be a heartless game master who will discard and doom those who used their own brain and intuition while on earth. It just doesn't fit.

 

[Citrin]

Saskia, thank you so much for commenting! I’ve been having the same thoughts as you have! I just can’t grasp the idea of a GOOD loving God that would punish people for this and that you know. I also feel deep down that I KNOW that God is good, God is love, and all those rules and judgements that unfortunately a lot of Religions deal with, have nothing to do with God.

I wholeheartedly agree with you about karma and reincarnation. I’ve felt for a long time that logically that is the only thing that makes sense to me. Energy does not disappear, it only changes shape and form, and like you’re saying, there are too many stories of people coming to that conclusion.

Thank you for your authentic comment, I really appreciate knowing there’s someone out there on the “same track” as me. I’m working with acceptance of these thoughts, feelings and ideas, and working towards letting go of fear, and trusting love.

 

[Bonny]

Citrin, all I want to say to you is 'It's ok!'

There's nothing I'm going to say that either yourself or one of the other loving souls have said ... and the truth of the sharings in their authenticity are what's ultimately helping and accompanying you! Blessings be!! May more of this shower on you!!!
I can speak as one who has been teaching religious education for many many years and who practices Catholicism who is considered to know what I'm talking about from a philosophical and theological point of view (am forming as a doctor in the subject...)...you are right = God is love.

The dogma, the doctrine, the tradition and the institution are all flags pointing the way (if they speak your language) but they're not to be interpreted as what the Christian traditions are really all about. Human beings have distorted and thwarted and muddled their way to the expression of church denominations we have today. Many Christians stay with a level of spiritual formation that they garnered in primary school at about the age of 8. After that they have not pursued any growth nor deepening in the wisdom needed to have a mature outlook on what christianity is all about.

It's not the heart of the the teachings nor the beauty of its liturgical features that have had ultimate influence or that have been the noise you've heard in what's caused your distress - it's mainly been the patriarchal societies (roman especially) that saturated the message in Christianity from the 1st century onwards with its own heirarchical egotistical constructs.

The essence of Christian teaching (I.e the life and ministry of Jesus Christ, elaborated well by gospels and St. Paul) was in its INCLUSIVENESS !! Christ literally came to bring a new 'law' and that law is 'love one another as God loves you ' - so when you or I or others read about practice or facilitate ways of ourselves or others becoming more in tune with who we are truly, So when we do this we are doing what's christian whether we call it Christian or not.

Reading tarot cards is like sitting down and noticing a feather on the ground and asking, 'why is Life mirroring me with a feather on the ground this morning?"v(as in Jungian psychology)... By 'divining' we are embracing our GOD GIVEN gifts of intuitive knowing.

Remember what I said about patriarchal ? Well if you take some time some day and read about what the early church fathers did to protect their land estates and money by defiling the dignity of women and making celibacy such an issue, you will see that 'feminine arts' like reading spiritually were scandalised as part of gender violence and brutality - all about money and power, not about the truth of what spiritual readings involve.

If I had time I would elaborate on the relationship between Mary Magdalane and Jesus christ and the dessert Ammas (who were BEFORE the desert fathers) and who inspired the Christian communities which started the church ... And I mention how most major strands of massive goodness in the church were first done by women but the history "told" it as if it were done by men. But I don't have time for that here. A woman's intuition was a "dangerous" thing when the dominant class in the society views woman's sexuality as the undoing of civilisation (and had a faulty understanding of how sexuality and intuition exist in a person... It was all just too powerful...) so it was scandalised. To control it. To destroy it. To hold onto possessions. To etc etc etc

What I have said here is a very (embarrassingly) trite overview of some responses on some of your concerns meant to reassure you that you are loved by a LOVING GOD who is ONLY LOVE and who does not judge you about tarot cards anymore than a caring presence intends for you to choose wholesomely how you use them, just as with any other item in your life, be it good, free time, chocolate, etc Forgive yourself Sweetheart!!! Realise you've not done anything wrong. You've just been unlucky not to have had informed, feminist religious educators around you to help you see that some things just don't matter at all. And the dreadful damage that's been caused by some in church / society propagating these notions.

Perhaps in closing I could suggest you to take up a spiritual practice that helps YOU touch into your emerging and ever growing connection to God (however you name he/she)... There are so many ways to practice - there's journalling, yoga, tai chi, surfing, walking labyrinths, pilgrimages, scripture ... so many!!
Relax and let this journey bathe and embrace you into the secure knowing that using tarot is just like using other methods of reflecting about life, choose styles and ways that are honouring and this should be constructive and additional to your robust spirituality, not a detractor. ... Over time you will develop an intuition on when you're using them too much or in ways that bring consolation (good /Holy Spirit) or desolation (not of Light) ... Choose to cultivate light! You'll see what to laugh about with them, etc etc...

I offer you this from reflections and thinking to the best of my ability. I hope it helps...

...Always be restless for Truth. It will set you free, as One amazing One said when he walked the earth, embodied.
Go well!
Bless,
B

 

[Saskia]

Hi Citrin, I'm happy to hear my view helped! I'm sure there are plenty more people around who think along the same lines but these topics just don't tend to come up in everyday conversations, too personal.
All the best with your search

 

[Saskia]

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[Citrin]

Bonny, wow thank you for replying with such rich comments!

I think many people are in fact drawn to the ”squareness” or dogma of the church, not to sound harsh but I think they find it comfortable to be ”served” a full concept like that. While others, you and me it seems haha, find it a bit too strict and feel the need to find (like you’re saying) more growth!

I’ve also always thought of the ability to read tarot as a God given gift! Of course people can use tarot in a bad way, to hurt others, to snoop, to manipulate, or even scam others, but as long as we don’t do that we can use tarot for good things. I really feel tarot has given me so much information about myself, my soul and even about God. It’s a beautiful gift.

Very interesting to see what you have to say about the patriarchal structures! It’s astounding feminism and strong women have been so feared by powerful men, and still are….

Thank you so much for the supportive words, Bonny. It has really meant a lot seeing others have struggled with similar thoughts.

 

[Morwenna]

I too am in this camp. I was raised Catholic and always found it beautiful and fascinating (as did Padma, above) and still do, but even when I was a child I had issues with some of the policies, i.e. no married clergy and no female clergy; and when I got older I had even more to object to. But I was a steady churchgoer for decades, only falling off when I was in my thirties, and now I rarely go, usually only on major holidays. But I still consider myself Catholic, because those are my roots, though the church I usually attend now is a UU (which is ironic, because my father who was raised Universalist converted to Catholicism in his advanced age--and look at me now!).

But I'm also Pagan, no specific branch, because in adulthood I met many people who were and had the opportunity to learn much more about it. I was also always fascinated by the "witchy," so it was no big surprise. And I never really felt any conflict. (You should see my book collection!)

What another person said above about folkways applies to me and my mother's family too; my grandmother was a card reader and devout Catholic, and no one in her orbit had any problem with that; it seems to have been normal. My mother's parents came from French Canada, and, as I discovered, many US immigrants from Catholic countries hung onto their folkways whether the clergy liked it or not, and saw no conflict. Oh, and my mother, who would never have understood the pull of Paganism, did have one interesting thought: she felt that reincarnation was probably the best interpretation of purgatory that she could think of! Had she lived longer (or kept her wits longer), I might have made a New Ager out of her.

As just about everyone has already said, it's all about intent. And we were exhorted all our youth to make the most of our God-given talents; if divination is a talent, we should therefore make the most of it!

There's another, more sociological angle to a lot of people's problems with family members who espouse things like this; if it means departing from the fold, then it's equivalent to treason against the family or community ethos. Solidarity looms very large in some people's lives. It's another example of it being all about fear.

 

[Barleywine]

I've come to view the "Christian myth" as a kind of allegorical "morality play" that exemplifies a generally admirable way to live, rather than any kind of historical truth. Nothing wrong at all with its moral tenets, everything wrong with the patriarchal priesthood that has erected a self-serving power structure around it. It's dangled in front of the credulous as a sure-fire path to "salvation" (meaning, I assume, eternal life), if only you follow the rules. (In other words, a mind-control mechanism of the power elite, the unholy alliance of Church and State.)

I'm more partial to Israel Regardie's statement that "mankind is only potentially immortal" (I'm not positive about the exact quote), and that you have to work at refining and elevating the spirit in order to transcend. Devotion, prayer, going to church on Sunday, keeping your nose clean the rest of the week, etc. are mainly sops for the uneasy conscience. I've spent some time with wicca in the past, but lately I'm more drawn to druidry and other "nature" practices. Every one of us chooses (or should choose) his or her own path, once we "unsheep" ourselves and move away from spoon-fed dogma.

 

[ravenest]

I'm struggling a lot with moving forward on my spiritual path lately. Wanted to see if someone else recognizes this?

It's like I have one foot in the Christian world and one foot in the ”spiritual” world or whatever you want to call it. Since my childhood/teen years I've been drawn to ”witchy” stuff. I used to borrow witchy/wicca books from the library, always felt drawn to the energy of the moon, and did little spells, etc...

Then I became Catholic and for a few years I was a devout Catholic (I still used tarot though lol!).

Well, there is a turn around ! Usually its dropped out catholics that make the best witches and magicians

Must be all the ritual and regalia and the focus on ( abit ) on feminine divinity .

This kind of ended when I couldn't ignore how hypocritical the church/priests could be at times. I lost all inspiration of going to mass because the heavy judgemental preachings made me mad and felt so far away from love (and God IS love so church should be about love!). Just my personal thoughts, I hope I don't offend anyone.

Not me ! I felt the same at an early age.

And now I'm lost because again I am drawn to the witchy/spiritual world, but also scared that maybe it IS in fact ”evil” like the church teaches?

You see, this is what 'they' do, they get inside your head and plant seeds of doubt about yourself .

I want to go deeper into exploring my spirituality, meditation, reiki (would love to do the step 1 course!), connecting with earth, stars and the moon, work with the moon phases... But at the same time I believe in Jesus, God, Mother Mary... And what if I will get punished (??) for not being enough monotheistic?

Then , I guess you will burn in hell forever.

Sounds pretty stupid that, doesnt it ? I highly recommend getting in touch with the natural forces around you. Actually, come to think of it Mary is often depicted with a Moon and Stars ....... thats food for thought !

I'm not really drawn to going to church, talking/listening to priests, and well not even reading the bible to be honest, but I don't want to leave the church officially since it's family tradition to be Catholic. Since I'm not devout, should I just leave the church completely? Or can I stay as a member but live my own spiritual life meanwhile?

Actually .... and this is a bit of a secret .... in this regard ...

you can do whatever you want ! If you dont like church and it wont disrupt your family dont go. You just have to get over the guilt trip associated with not going.

Those thoughts are spinning around in my head lately. I have trouble getting them straight.

I tried to get to the core of my beliefs. All I could think of was that I truly feel like all religion is "correct" so to speak. It doesn't matter if you pray to Ganesha, Shiva, Allah, the Universe, Source, Jesus, etc because God will hear that prayer no matter what you call him/her.

If it is a religion you want (and not some 'pagan tradition' ) that is more eclectic, liberal, has no church or sermons but beautiful temples where all the worlds scripture are read , believes in racial and sexual equality, protecting the environment, does not have a priesthood, etc . look into this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahá'í_Faith

I'd just love to talk to someone who has felt the same, now or a long time ago doesn't matter. Any thoughts for a confused woman?

Yes, confused woman .... I find that all pretty natural and entirely reasonable ... its the church and others that may put doubts in your head about it. Its a common experience and journey .... you should take the journey and enjoy it .... dont be a boring stay at home

You might find some similar souls in the Baha'i s .... maybe not with the added pagan 'flavour' .

I started off with Catholicism as I was forced into it. During individuation I became interested in pagan / occult things. Then I started doing things with the Baha'i s . For a while I fluctuated between the two. At that stage I was somewhat where you seem to be now.

Then I threw myself into occult studies and eventually joined a magical , fraternal order. During this stage, I encountered a lot of things that I was searching for in the Bahai's, but in there it seemed more hidden. In any case, it led me to see I was on a specific path regardless which system I was in and both were reflections of another. The thing is, organised religions can change things and adapt them away from their original inner content. In this case, the thing that linked both of my interest was Hermetics ; obvious in the magical tradition, and less obvious with the Baha'is, but intrinsic to its founders, founding and underlying traditions.

So I ran with that, been happy ever since, it incorporates much of the religious traditions and the 'religion of nature' ( the natural world ) / pagan. magical.

Nowadays I am retired, a hermit, have moved more into nature and its 'soul' and am pretty content and grateful

Fare well on your journey .

(Edit: Just to be clear, there's no pressure at all from my family to be Catholic, none of them go to church or pray on a regular basis. )[/QUOTE]