What if you discovered your favourite deck was painted by a Trump supporter?

[DownUnderNZer]

I am not talking about Propaganda....just art being art or designer wear being designer wear not anyone making a "statement" of any kind with "Art".

I wanted to say in the last one: "Freedom to choose" as you have a number of "Freedom Acts" I think, so that is why I put "anything".


DND

Yes .....but. Art isn't always just Art. Art can be provocative, it can instigate. That may be cool and creative, but it can also be used to motivate push an agenda. Political national, ethnic, religious commercial propaganda comes to mind. When that is the case then it's more than just art and as such can be critiqued from a different set of values. I'm not saying that is the case here, I'm just saying that "art is art' is a cliched expression that gives art a free pass that isn't always warranted.

Freedom from anything? I don't know, but this thread is also freedom of discussion.

But with the "Dixie Chicks" their lives were threatened, cds and stuff set on fire outside concert stadiums, and for about 7 years they had to drop out of sight. No work or performances all because one said:

"I am ashamed to come from the same state as our President (George Bush).

If it is a personal choice not to buy something because something in the art is distasteful - then so be it. I would be inclined to agree. Not because the Artist or Tarot Creator is a supporter of the Republicans, Democrats, or Other.

I would not stop buying Ciro's cards just because he supported Trump or Clinton.
However, if Ciro was a serial killer, different story.

My point is: It would have to be something about the person "directly" not because of who s/he associates with or not or who s/he supports or not. S/he has the right to think, feel, speak as s/he likes (as long as not too detrimental) and should be able to do so without prejudice.

DND, it is not petty to be cognizant of where your money is being spent. Same goes for where your spiritual energy is being spent. Earthair, just like the Dixie Chicks, has every right to spend her financial and spiritual energy where she sees fit. I think that's what this thread is about. Expressing this kind of concern. Maybe I've misunderstood your comment.

DND

 

[cirom]

Please explain how any President has directly affected your life, apart from media projections.

That's a really strange question, as a president can influence everything from military action to taxes. So how "directly affected" would my explanation have to be to satisfy your criteria. So let's try this one, Reduced health care premiums for members of my family. Not a media projection, but a series of actual past payments to health insurance companies. Although I must be honest, it wasn't really that direct, in other words Obama didn't actually come to my house and hand me a discount coupon. So does that still count?

 

[cirom]

I am not talking about Propaganda....just art being art or designer wear being designer wear not anyone making a "statement" of any kind with "Art".

I wanted to say in the last one: "Freedom to choose" as you have a number of "Freedom Acts" I think, so that is why I put "anything".


DND




But with the "Dixie Chicks" their lives were threatened, cds and stuff set on fire outside concert stadiums, and for about 7 years they had to drop out of sight. No work or performances all because one said:

"I am ashamed to come from the same state as our President (George Bush).

I would not stop buying Ciro's cards just because he supported Trump or Clinton.
However, if Ciro was a serial killer, different story.

Serial killer? No, but.......
I did stab a box of cornflakes once......

 

[prudence]

Please explain how any President has directly affected your life, apart from media projections.

Getting health care without a pre-existing conditions clause in the way. A very big deal, and if a deck artist made his imagery depicting removing healthcare from millions of people, due to pre existing conditions or something else, I'd not want to use that deck.

 

[Beancrew49]

That's a really strange question, as a president can influence everything from military action to taxes. So how "directly affected" would my explanation have to be to satisfy your criteria. So let's try this one, Reduced health care premiums for members of my family. Not a media projection, but a series of actual past payments to health insurance companies. Although I must be honest, it wasn't really that direct, in other words Obama didn't actually come to my house and hand me a discount coupon. So does that still count?

What I'm getting at is that the perceived power of the President is merely a construct of programming through our schools and media. In reality the job is to be a figurehead. He gives speeches, shakes hands, and occasionally vetoes a bill. In fact, no person, and most especially the President, has a hand in creating your reality. You have all the power, and you are creating your reality through your focus and perception. If you want to believe that the President has the power to decide what kind of health care you receive, then you are right. But it doesn't have to be that way.

 

[RavenLuna]

Getting health care without a pre-existing conditions clause in the way. A very big deal, and if a deck artist made his imagery depicting removing healthcare from millions of people, due to pre existing conditions or something else, I'd not want to use that deck.

I agree, not being able to get healthcare would affect my life in a big way.

In reply to Earthair, I would also feel that a deck had been tainted if I found out that the deck creator had far right views, or donated time or money to right wing campaigns. I would not buy a deck made by a Trump supporter, but then I'm already ethical in my buying choices. I boycott Warburtons bread because of who they donate to. I've just cancelled my National Trust membership because they allow "trail" hunting on our land (an elderly man and his dog were attacked on a public beach last week by a hunt). If I don't agree with something, they won't get my hard earned cash.

 

[Debra]

I'm with Ciro.

Yes .....but. Art isn't always just Art. Art can be provocative, it can instigate. That may be cool and creative, but it can also be used to motivate push an agenda. Political national, ethnic, religious commercial propaganda comes to mind. When that is the case then it's more than just art and as such can be critiqued from a different set of values. I'm not saying that is the case here, I'm just saying that "art is art' is a cliched expression that gives art a free pass that isn't always warranted.

Freedom from anything? I don't know, but this thread is also freedom of discussion.

ETA: I dunno, Beancrew49. Individuals have spheres of freedom and independence, and surely attitude makes a big difference. But in the big picture, we're all in this together, and I guarantee you that the commander-in-chief of the world's most formidable military isn't just a figurehead. Even focusing only on the level of symbolic leadership, Presidents and other heads of state have a big impact on the culture, and on relations among nations.

So yeah, for me, if something I learn about an artist, writer, etc. is particularly repulsive, I'm repulsed and sometimes reject their art.
I see it as integrating my feelings, aesthetics, and economic decisions. For me, it's connected to living with integrity.

 

[earthair]

What Prudence said re Osho master card is key in this Trump situation too- when key features of the deck are so at odds with the philosophy of the Trump administration-the integrity of the deck is destroyed !

Side note - please don't PM me asking who it is. All the information is available online on social media. If you have concerns about a deck you are thinking of buying then do your research and make up your own mind. Much as I don't want to support Trump, I don't want to affect the lively hood of artists and their publishers and their writers.

 

[Debra]

LOL well it can't be googled.

Do we need a thread on the trump card/Trump person conundrum?

 

[Le Fanu]

If you want to oppose Trump, behave as if he doesn't exist. Then you will see him slowly slink away from your reality.

I think this technique probably explains why Doreen Virtue decks are such a huge success.

I suppose in theory tarot and art are above all these things - but like it or not these things go deeper. And I don't mean -as someone else mentioned further up - being consumed with hatred and obsessing over Trump and blanket boycotting because someone *supported* a political cause in ways you're not quite sure of. I'm talking about specifics.

I once bought a deck from someone whom I later saw voicing opinions politically, radically different to my own - they didn't create the deck, it wasn't their first hand artwork - but I can live with other opinions and it didn't bother me enough to spoil the actual deck. I continue to enjoy the deck and the artwork. But imagine someone created, say, a multicultural deck and then their opinions were anything but multicultural, wouldn't you question?