XI. Lust - Woman on a lion

[yogiman]

It's hard to know where to begin. It might help if I point out that the 7 heads of the Beast relate to the 7 chakras.

In this sense the Beast would relate to the kundalini force. I for myself find it disturbing that Crowley used imagery from the New Testament. I think when Crowley had lived in our times probably he would have pictured things according to indian tantra. A good representative for Babalon would be Kali.

 

[Zephyros]

In this sense the Beast would relate to the kundalini force. I for myself find it disturbing that Crowley used imagery from the New Testament. I think when Crowley had lived in our times probably he would have pictured things according to indian tantra. A good representative for Babalon would be Kali.

That's right, there are several times Hadit refers to himself as a snake.

About the New Testament, to paraphrase Dion Fortune (sans racism) the Western Mystery Tradition is uniquely suited to those with a Western mindset. This has to do more than with just the Christian world, but with the myths, ideas and definitions that make up Western society. This doesn't mean that the BoL is only for Westerners, but that it is important to talk to people in a language they can understand, and I think even today Kali would be less familiar to people than a subverted Mary-type figure. Although one could argue that the Trumps themselves are Christian, the Thoth generally presents a balanced, varied mix of cultural associations.

 

[Aeon418]

In this sense the Beast would relate to the kundalini force.

In one sense, yes. The Beast is more generally thought of as a Solar-Phallic archetype of Tiphareth and the Sun. In other places he is the Stellar-Phallic archetype of Chokmah called All Father Chaos. Together with Babalon, a Lunar-Yonic archetype of Binah, they represent the familiar Father - Mother deities found in other cultures. Except that these two are intensely sexual.

The Beast and Babalon may be thought of as 'stepped down' versions of the more abstract Nuit and Hadit.

I for myself find it disturbing that Crowley used imagery from the New Testament.

Ok, so you're disturbed...
Personally I don't find the symbolism any more disturbing than the use of Egyptian symbolism to represent other Thelemic deities.

A good representative for Babalon would be Kali.

Too narrow. What do you base this on? Shakti would be a much better fit.

 

[Zephyros]

Not every myth is scripture, but almost every scripture is a myth. There is no difference between using Western New Testament symbolism and Eastern symbolism. Why would use of Revelations be more disturbing?

 

[ravenest]

One of the reasons for using it is perhaps is to disturb those that are disturbed by it ?

 

[ravenest]

I forgot to add;

Another 'reason' is depicted in the lower portion of the card ... see under the feet of the beast.

 

[yogiman]

I think even today Kali would be less familiar to people than a subverted Mary-type figure.

Which people? In case the target group is spoonfed and bored christians? The new testament was written in hebrew and greek. Northern-europe and a large majority of north-america should be pagan. And would it not be fair to think of the jews?

Not every myth is scripture, but almost every scripture is a myth. There is no difference between using Western New Testament symbolism and Eastern symbolism. Why would use of Revelations be more disturbing?

Because of the ape of thoth.

 

[Zephyros]

Which people? In case the target group is spoonfed and bored christians? The new testament was written in hebrew and greek. Northern-europe and a large majority of north-america should be pagan. And would it not be fair to think of the jews?

The Law is for All, even bored Christians, and Jews. Finding one's Will is not a wholly intellectual process, and one does not need to be a scholar to accept the Law. Although the Beast with the Seven Heads may be perceived as a reaction on Crowley's part against Christianity, many of the symbols date back to earlier times. The Aeon of Osiris did not start with Christianity, but several thousand years earlier. The point is not about whether Babalon has origins in Revelations, but a broader doctrine of the Dying God. This is perhaps exemplified by Christianity, but is seen even in the Old Testament (the sacrifice of Isaac, the betrayal of Joseph, the suffering of Job, even the Exodus). Along with Osiris, the concept of a pure virgin is also not original to Christianity.

Be that as it may, I could offer you a list of reading material that explains the subject better than I could, but you won't read it. What is so disturbing about the use of Christian symbols? Don't forget that one of the purposes was not only to disturb, but also to cause a person to explore why they are disturbed.

 

[yogiman]

What is so disturbing about the use of Christian symbols?

I am really a child of the sixties. I don't feel any affinity to christian symbols. Though I find the christian values of love, mercy and loyalty really great (unless sincerity). No one here believes in the new testament.

 

[Zephyros]

I am really a child of the sixties. I don't feel any affinity to christian symbols. Though I find the christian values of love, mercy and loyalty really great (unless sincerity). No one here believes in the new testament.

That's an unrelated answer. Please be more to the point. What's the problem?