XV Le Diable

Moonbow

I have drawn this card in a three card spread (you may have heard this before in the Ace Cups thread ) and I have been reading through all the information here - Phew!........ What I cannot find is any reference to the Devil's right hand. One of the first things I noticed about the card is that he seems to be beckoning with his right hand. Together with this ( in the Hadar at least) his eyes look crossed. Which brings me to hypnotism. What do you think? Does anyone have any views on this or anything else about this card?

Moonbow*
 

Eberhard

Nathan Cate in his Sanctuaryof the Gods , a book about the Tarot based on the Pagan world view of Greek mystery religions, writes about the Devil:

... the devil shown here is not malevolent. Rather he suffers from Downs syndrome (mongolism), and consequently from retardation. The sword the devil holds has no handle, cutting the hand that wields it.

Children of Dionysos

Downs syndrom sufferers were sacred to Dionysos, for like drunks they suffered from the sort of darkness which occurs when the fire of life is dimmed and the initiate enters the underworld ...

There is no mentioning of the devil's right hand, but an interesting one about his wings:

... as in the Phaedrus of Plato where wings were said to grow along the soul's wisdom, the devil has bat's wings indicating that his soul is in darkness, the favored environment of the bat. On close inspection of the right-hand wing we can see that its bones are distorted where they come into contact with the tip of the sword. This tells us that the devil's actions damage his very soul.


pp.347ff
 

Moonbow

Eberhard

Thankyou for the above quotes regarding Downs Syndrome. The quote about the wings is interesting. I assumed it was flames at the tip of the sword. I still find his right hand interesting because the 'thumb' is on the outside which makes his palm face himself in a beckoning motion? Anyway what you have said is still giving me cause to look closer - many thanks

Moonbow*
 

Le_Corsair

catboxer said:
Picturing the devil with multiple faces, most commonly on the belly but sometimes on the knees or other parts of the body, was very common in medieval and renaissance times. Devils and demons were often depicted as androgynes as well. Certainly this was to emphasize the monstrosity of the Evil One, but there must have been other, more complex reasons that pre-modern Europeans chose to render the devil in this way, some of which they may not have been fully aware of.

I've attached a 16th-century German/Lutheran woodcut which portrays the Pope as the devil. You can tell it's the Pope because the flag atop the tower at the left displays (it's a little fuzzy, but you can make it out) the two-keys papal insignia. The devil in this picture is made up of multiple species of animals, is androgynous, and has multiple faces. One shows on its left buttock, and another is at the end of the tail.


There were good historical reasons to portray the Devil with a second face on his buttocks. In the Demonologist's handbook written by Pierre de Lancre* a story is related of a witches' Sabbat, one of the components of which is the osculum infame or osculum obscoenum, the kiss of shame, in which the witch kisses the Devil on the buttocks or under the tail. One tale de Lancre relates is that of a witch who claimed that the devil had a second face under the tail, which they were required to kiss in homage.


*Tableau de l'inconstance des mauvais anges, 1612.

Bob :THERM
 

filipas

Diana wrote:
what I have always found interesting on this deck is the sword that the Devil is holding does not have a handle. He/she holds it directly by the blade. Does anyone here have an explanation for this? What could this mean symbolically?
One more thing. In the Camoin deck: what on earth is he standing on? And why the low blue wall behind him?
jmd wrote:
Diana, I too have found it highly interesting that, at least on the Marteau/Grimaud version of this card, the Devil appears to be holding the blade of a sword. This is not, however, the case with most Marseilles versions. Even in the colouration of the Grimaud deck, one can recognise what appears to be flames (blue as the wings are) arising from the top of this instrument.
In other decks, it seems much more that it is a torch of some type which is held, and in the 1650 Noblet version (attached), a forked 'wand' or staff. . .

Hi Diana, JMD, and folks,

I find that the Marseilles trump images parallel medieval Hebrew in an uncanny way. Since I've written elsewhere about these parallels at greater length, I'll summarize here so as to move on to more specific comments about Trump XV.

Briefly, the 22 trump subjects ('magician', 'sibyl', 'queen', 'duke', 'pontiff', 'love', 'triumph', etc.) can be found in alphabetical sequence in medieval Hebrew dictionaries. The fifteenth trump, for instance, parallels the word 'Satan' (STN) which begins with the fifteenth Hebrew letter samech. In other words, I posit that each Marseilles trump may be the illustration of one Hebrew letter in much the same way as a child’s English primer illustrates “A is for apple” and “B is for boy”. The same alphabetical parallel extends to virtually every object depicted in the designs. So, not only does the first letter aleph begin a Hebrew word for magician (in Hebrew: AMGVSh, AShP), it also begins Hebrew words for bench (ATzTBH), coin (AGVRH, AYSR, ASThRA), cup (ANBG, ANPQ), balls (ASQRYTY), cylinder (ATzTVNH), knife, dagger (AVGRTh, ARRN), pouch (AVDYA, ARNQ, APVNDH, APSThYP), to perform magic tricks (AChZ, AChZ OYNIM), festive suit (ASTLYTh), waistband (ABNT, AZVRH), hat (APYLYVTh), cloth shoes (AMPLYA), and young shoot of a plant (AB). Similar "word sets" exist for each of the 22 Marseilles allegories.

One reason why I argue this alphabetical scheme seems to have been intended (as opposed to being a coincidence) is because the parallel is virtually complete only when the trumps and letters are paired in their ordinal sequences, i.e, when the first trump is paired with the first letter, the second trump with the second letter, and so on through the series, the unnumbered card taking the final position. (This kind of 'visual alphabeticism', by the way, is known to be the basis for other visual and literary works contemporaneous with the early Tarot - but that is another thread!) And although the Hebrew language is extensive, the odds are extremely high that virtually all of the objects in a series of 22 designs would exist alphabetically in the lexicon by chance.

Since the obvious elements in the designs match the lexicon so well, I've become more and more convinced that the obscure iconographic elements of the Marseilles can be identified through reference to the Hebrew lexicon.

For example, Diane points out the unusual detail of the Devil's sword, apparently a blade with no hilt. This seems to match the Hebrew word 'SKYN' meaning "blade" or "knife inserted into a handle". As jmd has said, the shape at the tip of this blade was depicted differently by various cardmakers, although the object itself is blade-like in many early versions: flat at bottom, spine up the middle, angled point at tip. I personally think there is additional weight in the fact that there appears to be no Hebrew word for 'torch' beginning with the letter samech. There are other aspects to this card which I think stack the argument in favor of it originally being a sword rather than a torch, regardless of (mis)interpretations by later cardmakers.

(In response to jmd's comment on the Noblet: While the Jean Noblet Tarot is one early example of the Marseilles, there are many reasons to think its designs are a simplified interpretation of the full pattern. The Grimaud appears to be so as well. I think we have to look to decks such as the Conver - nearly identical to the early Chosson, and iconographically "ratified" by its similarity to many other early decks - to see a more accurate rendition of the original Marseilles.)

jmd wrote:
In each of these decks, it also seems that the pedastal upon which it stands is 'clearly' (at least to my eyes) an anvil. . . In one aspect, both Hephaestus's anvil and the torched light are here represented.
I agree, the object seems to be an anvil in most early Marseilles. (This idea may at first seem strange to those of us who grew up only with the Grimaud depiction of this object.) Identifying the object as an anvil seems to me strengthened by the existence of the Hebrew 'SDN', a word for anvil beginning with the letter samech. These elements tie together by the fact that an unhilted blade is something forged upon an anvil.

There is another reason to think that the one object depicts a knife rather than a torch. First, numerous early decks show the two smaller figures as having no breasts, yet no penises (some later versions show one male and one female figure). Secondly, decks such as the Conver Marseilles show a set of male genitalia at the tip of the devil's blade; this may sound ridiculous to those who have not looked closely but genitalia can clearly be seen on any of the currently published Conver reproductions (such as the Heron or Lo Scarabeo) and seems to be there (use a magnifying glass!) in Kaplan's reproduction of the earlier Chosson (Encyclopedia Vol II). The reason many early designs used the color red here was probably not to render the flames of a torch but to depict blood spurting from a recent castration (SRS), each of the smaller figures being a eunuch (SRYS). I suspect the design might even have been intended (in part) as an allegory about sexual roles, the larger figure with breasts wearing one of the men's genitalia around her waist and brandishing the other's at the end of her blade.

Diana wrote:
Also, I was interested to see in the Camoin deck the marks on the chests of the two enchained creatures. The three spots on the creature on the left, are these not initiatory signs of the Masons?
My impression is that it represents the devil's mark, the belief being that such marks were one means by which magicians and witches could be identified. It also matches the Hebrew words for "mark, sign" (SYMA, SYMN) and "incision" (SYRChN, SRT).

Moonbow wrote:
What I cannot find is any reference to the Devil's right hand. One of the first things I noticed about the card is that he seems to be beckoning with his right hand. Together with this (in the Hadar at least) his eyes look crossed. Which brings me to hypnotism. What do you think? Does anyone have any views on this or anything else about this card?
I was surprised to find the medieval Hebrew word 'SYT', which means "the distance between the tip of the thumb and that of the index finger when held apart." The word seems a match to the pose of the devil's hand. (I believe there is another reason why his hand appears to be emphasized in the design and why it seems to parallel the figure in Trump V, but that is part of a more complex study which I haven't finished and am not ready to argue yet!)

We also find the word 'SKY' which was a medieval Hebrew euphemism for "cross-eyed".

These are the words which, as a group, match strikingly to the Marseilles design:

Satan — STN
Thorny twigs (on heads) — SVGYYNA, SYGA, SYLThA, SKK
Polished metal helmet — SNVVRThA, SNVARThH
Cross-eyed — SKY
Fins (of a fish) — SNPYR
Muffler (around neck) — SVDR
To mark with red paint — SQRThA, SRQ
To support, To prop up — SMK (name of the fifteenth letter)
Ring for attaching a yoke — SVMK (name of the fifteenth letter)
Rope of a yoke — SMYVN
To attach, To tie together — SVM
Tied up — SMYVTh
Blade — SKYN
Anvil — SDN
Eunuch — SRYS
Castration, To emasculate — SRS, SYRVS
Fence, Enclosure — SGYA, SHR, SVGH, SChR, SYG

Thanks,
- Mark
(p.s. Although my user name on Aeclectic is 'filipas', please call me Mark!
 

Moonbow

Mark, thankyou,

There is so much information here. I will remember when I have other questions to looks at your Marseilles alphabet in future. This is great, thankyou

Moonbow* :)
 

jmd

Wonderful to have your thoughts in this thread, Mark - incidentally, if you do a search for 'Filipas', you'll find your Alphabetic Masquerade referred to a number of times in various threads.

With regards to the Noblet, I personally agree that though it is one of the earliest extant Marseille styles available, it leaves much to be desired. Hence one of the reasons I too prefer, for historical study, the Conver - its details seem to be, to say the least, carefully considered.

Thanks also for listing those words from your Alphabetic Masquerade...

As mentioned either earlier this thread or in others, the triple nipple I also personally view as quite important... that it is the 'Devil's mark' also indicates, to my mind, again that it is there for the suckling.

The possible castration of the two figures is quite an interesting possibility. These are the kinds of reflections which always add to further insights into the iconography of the deck. For those who have not noticed the possible castrated member at the tip of the 'blade', the Conver is really the version to view, as it is not included in most other decks. Thanks also for pointing out its inclusion in the Chosson - but I as yet cannot see it (maybe my edition of the Encyclopedia isn't as clear).

Personally, and though it is possible that the 'belt' of the Devil may be used to have the testicles and penis attached, it seems more natural - to me - to consider that the genitalia is its own...
 

Moonbow

Mark and Jmd

Does anyone have a pic of the Conver - Le Diable?

M*

PS - I'm so glad I couldn't sleep tonight! - this is real cozy
 

jmd

Attached is a closeup of the section from the Héron version of the Conver... slightly enhanced.

The enhancement actually took a little away from the 'clarity' of the genitals as mentioned by Mark, which is seen as erect, testicles to a little to the left, and penis as in the sigil for Mars
 

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