Marseilles Seekers Thread (sixth Exercise)

stella01904 said:

I finally had to get the e book, too. This is actually ground-breaking stuff, it's entirely possible people could be talking about it years from now.

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I bought this quite a few weeks back and I'm glad I did.

firefrost said:

I bought this quite a few weeks back and I'm glad I did.

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Me, too, although the exercises here have expanded on the book quite a bit. I'm glad to have both.

Satori said:

... Could you briefly discuss how you treat the majors and courts in readings.

Do you give them any special considerations, do they stand up for you as people around your querent....and so forth.

You must have some defs for the Majors...

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I like the way JMD puts it: 'The question is not "what is this supposed to mean", but rather "how am I seeing this now, and what arises in me as I consider this".'

Satori said:

EE, I know we are winding down, and will pursue the reading exercises/practice that you have ready to spring on us. But I wondered, could you briefly discuss how you treat the majors and courts in readings.

Do you give them any special considerations, do they stand up for you as people around your querent....and so forth.

You must have some defs for the Majors...not that we need to get all of your secrets out of you....perhaps I need to get the Ebook!

Anyway, at your discretion, and whatever you are comfortable sharing would be welcomed. I am thinking that I will be using the Marseille quite a bit in the coming weeks! For at least 30 weeks anyway!

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Sure,

I already shared my ‘meanings’ for the trumps:

LE BATELEUR: The moment you master something, but you aren't ready to take credit.
LA PAPESSE: The moment you you take your eyes away from the page and stare at the empty space.
LEMPERATICE: The moment you know that all you have accomplished won't suffice.
LEMPEREUR: The moment you dream about what you will never do.
LE PAPE: The moment you let someone else do the thinking.
LAMOREUX: The moment you you don't know.
LE CHARIOT: The moment you you think you know, and go for it without holding back.
JUSTICE: The moment you realize you know as much as you don't know, but you can't tell the difference.
LERMTE: The moment you retrace your steps by feeling instead of thinking.
LA ROUE DE FORTUNE: The moment you you know it is all just a moment.
LA FORCE: The moment you struggle between what you have learned and what you have been told.
LE PENDU: The moment you laugh after nailing yourself into a cross.
LA MORT: The moment you follow your wounds.
TEMPERANCE: The moment you find comfort in the smallest tasks.
LE DIABLE: The moment wrong feels right.
LA MAISON DIEU: The moment you wish you never prayed for a miracle.
LESTOILLE: The moment you win by surrendering.
LA LUNE: The moment your words fail you.
LE SOLEIL: The moment you find your words in other person's ear.
LE JUDGEMENT: The moment you remember what was dead.
LE MONDE: The moment you mind moves on.

THE FOV: The moment your body follows it.

They are useless most of the time. Context is everything.

I don’t regard the trumps and court cards as different or more important than the pips. The trumps are nouns, the court cards feel more like verbs, and the pips are adjectives. We need them all.

Here is something I wrote for another forum, regarding the Court Cards. It can be applied to the trumps too:

For me the cards only become clear in context. The Valet is simply a young man who seem to be offering his baston. In fact, would he be in front of the Royne de Couppes he will be offering that baston, but if he is in front of the Ace of Deniers, he would be planting that baston on the ground. The Chevalier de Bastons seem to be putting a stop on the Chevalier de Coupes urge to gallop away, but the Chevalier de Coupes brings the ink the Roy de Bastons needs to dip his baston in. The Roy Despee may be ready to take the coin from the Royne de Denier’s hand with one sword’s single blow, or Royne de Denier may be ready to drop that coin inside the Roy de Couppes Cup. Each character re-contextualizes the one next to it.

When characters from the same suits are together I will see how the element that defines the suit evolves or changes position. Does it becomes active or passive? It is being used, held, offered? Does it gets more refined, less refined?

When characters from different suits are together I will see how their elements interact. Can one contain the other? Can one subdue the other? Can it make it grow?


When it comes to the individual cards I pay attention to the characters’ posture or body language. Not only it gives me an indication of motion -advancing, retreating, stalling- but it helps me describe certain emotional states. For example, Roys and Roynes are always shifting... they remind me of Rodin’s theory of sculpture, about how to capture true movement by having parts of a character showing one fraction of a certain motion while other parts of the same character would depict the next fraction of the same movement (he believed this was more accurate than a photographic still image). Neither Roys nor Roynes have their minds and bodies at the same place at the same time, they are always looking ahead, but the Roynes seem to be better at concealing it, while the Roys are clearly revolving on their chairs. They feel like these kind of people whose body language is easier to ‘read’, more impetuous perhaps. Roynes are more self-restrained. The only exception would be the Roy de Batons, who seem more in control of himself. Back to Rodin, this difference of attitude between what the Roys and the Roynes transmit, is given by the opposition between the direction of the legs/bodies and the direction of the heads in the Roy de Denier, the Roy Despees and the Roy de Couppes. Both the Roy de Batons and the four Roynes have their bodies facing the same direction than their heads.

I find peculiar that the only queen who doesn’t stares at the object she is holding -the Royne de Bastons- is the only one looking towards the future. (This is, assuming that we read narratives as we read text, from left/past to right/future). All Roys are looking forward, with their objects out of their sight. But the other three Roynes seem focused either on their objects, or in the act of holding their objects. I could see the Royne Despee chasing away the past. The Royne de Couppes feels like doing the opposite: she seem to be inviting the past to come upon her. The Royne de Deniers is the one that seems more absorbed by her object. But then again, I can tell if she is obsessed with it, or offering it to the past. The characters’s facial features are open enough to express more than one sentiment by closing a Gestalt with other cards.


I will post more later.

Best,

EE

EE this is just great! The moments of the trumps really speaks to me. I also love the fluidity of the courts.. you've given me much to contemplate here!

Hooked

Thank you Enrique. I remembered that list. I was looking for it last night...and I got caught up reading your other essay about the pips, the one from your website. I printed it out a while ago, and just found it today in my Tarot binder. Which is now going to be recreated into a new binder....for my Marseille material.

And I did finally find my Hadar....the newer one. For a TDM type II deck I actually like it. I like the creamy background color...pale enough not to overpower but still, a hint of warmth.

Satori said:

Thank you Enrique. I remembered that list. I was looking for it last night...and I got caught up reading your other essay about the pips, the one from your website. I printed it out a while ago, and just found it today in my Tarot binder. Which is now going to be recreated into a new binder....for my Marseille material.

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LOL, the stuff you accumulate in binders and those little cheap folders is waaaay better than the stuff in the Tarot section of the local bookstore, IMHO.

stella01904 said:

LOL, the stuff you accumulate in binders and those little cheap folders is waaaay better than the stuff in the Tarot section of the local bookstore, IMHO.

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Yes, because you tailor it to what you love and what you need! I hate paying 25 bucks for one chapter...or better yet...one sentence that you couldn't live without!!!

Totally agree about collecting your own info.

Especially when you're in the company of Tarot Greats

mosaica said:

I like the way JMD puts it: 'The question is not "what is this supposed to mean", but rather "how am I seeing this now, and what arises in me as I consider this".'

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(Has that course started already? He said he put me on the list but I haven't gotten anything....and does anybody have a link to someplace I can get the Unger book? I can't seem to find it.)

I think Enrique's managed to find the tail rudder - you know, the little thing that can turn the whole big ship. I think it's entirely possible that this thing could gather enough momentum that people finally break out of that "but the book says" mindset. At least I hope so, since that would be a wonderful development - not just for Tarot, but for life.

Anything that gets people thinking for themselves is good, IMHO.