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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazel
Speaking of turning hurt into acceptance and knowledge - The one card personalising this process and state of maturity must be the Queen of Swords. It occured to me last night after writing about other Swords having to do with the hurt of knowledge.

... To me she is the wisest of the Queens, I've always thought life must have taken its toll on her.

Around the left wrist, she (in the RWS version) has a band or a scrap of a rope. Something has tied her, maybe she's been in the Eight's position, but has used her intellect and skills to free herself from whatever that was.

...
What a wonderful insight into the Queen of Swords - I've always had an affinity to the card, and felt that the typical characterization of her as mean and hurtful or unemotional was superficial - I have never noticed the rope, and love your connection to the 8..

It is like your suggestion about the three of swords (with which I agree) Hurt and heartache is part of the process of gaining wisdom. Those two swords in the RWS 2 cannot stay there balancing forever, they need to pierce us, and hurt us, so we can move to the introspection of the 4 and on, to other stages of maturing with our intellect.
Top   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maelin
What a wonderful insight into the Queen of Swords - I've always had an affinity to the card, and felt that the typical characterization of her as mean and hurtful or unemotional was superficial - I have never noticed the rope, and love your connection to the 8..
Dear Maelin
Thank you very much for your kind words.
Actually looking a bit closer the rope could in fact be a tassel on her sleeve.
But I do like this story, so I think I'll stick to it, if it seems appropriate ;o)

Gazel.
Top   #12
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Gazel, thank you for starting this thread
Lately I've been "contemplating" on the tree of swords too as i am getting it in the advice position where no traditional meaning applyes.
There is obviously much more to it, than the "broken heart"
I thought, ok, swords are the suit of the intellect and the emotions itself originate as a thought, right?
So, what does it actually mean to be "broken-hearted" in the terms of three of swords? I am not speaking here about real losses, that would be some major arkana -card for me and the more i am looking at the three of swords... the more it looks to me like some ego-based whining
Of course, i am speaking exclusively of my own experience with this card, not that it applyes generally
Love,
mdr
Top   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moderndayruth
Gazel, thank you for starting this thread
You're welcome to join in, off course ;o)

Quote:
Lately I've been "contemplating" on the tree of swords too as i am getting it in the advice position where no traditional meaning applyes.
There is obviously much more to it, than the "broken heart"
As advice I would say it means something like "reconcile yourself with this (what ever the reading is about), accept the pain, hurt and losses of life instead of letting yourself be embittered".

Quote:

So, what does it actually mean to be "broken-hearted" in the terms of three of swords? I am not speaking here about real losses, that would be some major arkana -card for me and the more i am looking at the three of swords... the more it looks to me like some ego-based whining
I would politely say that I do not totally agree with you ;o)
Ego based whining hmm - what about the 4oC? "Nothing can really be to any help in this situation".
I do understand that losses in themself could be presented by the Majors - I think the brokenheartedness of the 3oS is more about the feelings that being hurt and having lost something or someone bring on, and the ability and willingness, as I stated, to accept this.

I think that Majors could tell about the actual, present loss, and how it hits totally unexcepted (like the Tower) while the 3oS could tell about the broken heartedness down the line; the accumulated life experience ; sort of "What comes around, goes around", and that pain's a part of this.

Quote:
Of course, i am speaking exclusively of my own experience with this card, not that it applyes generally
Well, I could say the same, or this is just my thoughts about it ;o)

Gazel.
Top   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazel
As advice I would say it means something like "reconcile yourself with this (what ever the reading is about), accept the pain, hurt and losses of life instead of letting yourself be embittered".
He, he, good one I've been working on this one for... for more than ten years now... i am still "work in progress", but at least it's quite seldom now that i go like "why me?!" and the other well-known victim-mentality questions



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazel
I would politely say that I do not totally agree with you ;o)
Ego based whining hmm - what about the 4oC? "Nothing can really be to any help in this situation".
4oC for me is usually a lot of thinking and zero of action... Probably it happened to you too sometimes (or maybe it's just me going totally nuts lol), but you know when in your mind you see all the pro-s and contra-s of some situation, when you go through all the possible good and bad sides of it, all the ups and downs... at the end this situation never happens in reality. That's basically what 4oC represents for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazel
I do understand that losses in themself could be presented by the Majors - I think the brokenheartedness of the 3oS is more about the feelings that being hurt and having lost something or someone bring on, and the ability and willingness, as I stated, to accept this.
I think that Majors could tell about the actual, present loss, and how it hits totally unexcepted (like the Tower) while the 3oS could tell about the broken heartedness down the line; the accumulated life experience ; sort of "What comes around, goes around", and that pain's a part of this.
Well, I could say the same, or this is just my thoughts about it ;o)
Gazel.
You've got me thinking...
Thank you one more time for rising this question... i feel a if i am a lot closer to that "Eureka!"-moment
As soon as i realise something substantial - promisse i'll come back
Love,
Lena
*mdr is off to fetch her books on negative emotions*
Top   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moderndayruth
He, he, good one I've been working on this one for... for more than ten years now... i am still "work in progress", but at least it's quite seldom now that i go like "why me?!" and the other well-known victim-mentality questions
I never really liked the 3oS coming up, in any location, but know I think I can se it for the better not the worse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by moderndayruth
4oC for me is usually a lot of thinking and zero of action... Probably it happened to you too sometimes (or maybe it's just me going totally nuts lol), but you know when in your mind you see all the pro-s and contra-s of some situation, when you go through all the possible good and bad sides of it, all the ups and downs... at the end this situation never happens in reality. That's basically what 4oC represents for me
I do know this situation, but havent really seen it as a 4oC situation, I must admit. But now might do se it that way, if it fits in ;o)

Quote:
You've got me thinking...
Thank you one more time for rising this question... i feel a if i am a lot closer to that "Eureka!"-moment
Well, I'm glad my thoughts helped you.

Gazel.
Top   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoddessArtemis
Another thing about the 3 of Swords and the combo of mind/heart is...that your mind/thoughts are hurting your heart. So it's less of a purely feelings-based situation, and more of an over-thinking issue, where you end up hurting yourself.
...
The more you think about it, the more your imagination gets the better of you, and then you start giving yourself heartache over it...whether the concern is true or not.
I just found this thread and what you're saying makes very much sense. I never thought of it that way before. (Until now I just thought about it as "the big heartbreak card".)

For me the 3 of Swords speaks about heartache and hurt (of course) but it's also very dramatic. Sometimes almost a bit _too_ much, there is something exaggerated, almost theatrical about it, like maybe there's more drama there than is necessary...

And that fits perfectly with the idea of overthinking things.

When you think about something TOO much, it starts adding to the hurt, and the whole issue gets way more weight and drama than it originally had (or was worth). Some people can get stuck in sorrow, even kind of fall in love with their own pain, it's like on some level they want to suffer and feel wronged and hurt. (After all, the image on the 3 of Swords is kind of beautiful.)
So they keep thinking and thinking about the things that once hurt them, and keep sticking those swords through their own heart. Over and over again. And the wounds of course never get a chance to heal as long as they keep doing that.

Just some thoughts on this card, thanks to what you said there.
Top   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazel
Yes. And it can take time to reach that point of acceptance.


turning hurt into acceptance and knowledge - ...

So there is some kind of cyclus here; knowledge can hurt, and hurt can bring on knowledge - and freedom of the mind.

Yours truly, Gazel.
In the New Orleans Voodoo Tarot, the 3 of Swords is called Guedeh (3 Rada)

http://alpha.mxat.ru/WWPCM/decks05/d02446/d02446s3.jpg

Papa Guedeh is the lwa (spirit) of the dead.

As you can see, there are 3 coffins at the bottom of the card and Guede is sitting above them, kicked back with a smoke, chilling. This illustrates the peace and acceptance in the face of death (which is just another form of change, especially in tarot). Even the skeletons in the coffins seem to be grinning a bit! LOL

When someone/thing dies, we mourn the death but we know (at least on a subconscious level) that it was time for this person or thing (or situation!) to pass from our lives; their purpose is fulfilled and their leaving was necessary for us to go to the next level. This is the intellectual/logical side speaking.

Does that make it hurt any less? No. That's where the heart comes in, the hurt even in the midst of logic ("Why did you leave MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE?!"). Still, there is freedom in death; like the other shoe has dropped and a weight has been lifted.

I hope I'm making sense. There is good insight in this thread.

T.
Top   #18
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You know, I do not disagree that there is a lesson to be learned,ultimately, from the 3 of SW, but first I can feeeel the pain in this card! The swords pierce the heart - it is a visual image of what it feels like when someone tells you the truth that you do not want to know. The pain of betrayal (ugh, that is the worst!) Maybe the lesson comes later, after you have rested in the 4's and gotten the last word in the 5, but the 3 HURTS now!
Top   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrosaxon
In the New Orleans Voodoo Tarot, the 3 of Swords is called Guedeh (3 Rada)

http://alpha.mxat.ru/WWPCM/decks05/d02446/d02446s3.jpg

Papa Guedeh is the lwa (spirit) of the dead.

...
Thank you for pointing me to that card, I'm not at al familiar with that deck. It's alway interesting to meet something new and, to me, different ;o)

Quote:
When someone/thing dies, we mourn the death but we know (at least on a subconscious level) that it was time for this person or thing (or situation!) to pass from our lives; their purpose is fulfilled and their leaving was necessary for us to go to the next level. This is the intellectual/logical side speaking.

Does that make it hurt any less? No. That's where the heart comes in, the hurt even in the midst of logic ("Why did you leave MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE?!").
We can't necessarily grasp the meaning of loss or hurt as it hits, or maybe not even later on, but we can go through the hurt and it's "why me, us, him, her" and let it take its time, and in the end perhaps accept, that it is part of life. I think we can come to terms with the sorrow and grieving "and get on" and accept it, but I dont think that true, deep heart ache (I'm not talking kiss and tell heart ache here) will ever really leave the heart. The swords will make scars. And transform us.

Quote:
Still, there is freedom in death; like the other shoe has dropped and a weight has been lifted.
Yes, I think thats why Death is about transformation.

Quote:
I hope I'm making sense. There is good insight in this thread.

T.
There is - thanx to you and other people adding insight to it.

Gazel
Top   #20

 





 


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