Italian decks

Cerulean

It might be the Latin suits that are not fun for people...

Moonbow* said:
Alan, I am doing a similar exercise to you but with the Soprafino, Liguria-Piedmont, and Bologna for studying and comparison, and some readings with the Vacchetta. Its a very readable deck and makes a change from reading with the Marseilles families for me.

The Lombardy on the other hand, is not a readable deck for me, I find it cold and uninspiring. The people cards are expressionless and snapshot-like as though they are posing. I like to peruse it occasionally and I still wonder about the rear view of the Cavalieres. I don't hear of anyone else reading with this deck and its rarely mentioned.

Cerulean says:
I understand about what Moonbow is saying about the above. I was thinking stylistically theminors of the Neoclassical/Ancient Tarots of Lombardy followed the delicate decor of Ace through Four for the Latin-suited style of Hombre/Spanish Cadiz playing card reproductions that I like...known as Barajas to some these days...and the Portugese cards (especially those that influenced Japanese playing cards that became Karuta) that I like. The rear and side view of the 'four caballaros' (Knights) are curiously memorable. I found a Japanese-Portugese set of small period set of rearing knight/soldier Portugese-Japanese illustrations in an online presentation that reminded of such Lombardy/Neoclassical/Latin-suited knights.

But this deck stirred my imagination because the costume of the period of 1806-1811 reminded me of old paintings and a Mannerist art style that was retro-recognizeable in Italianate decorations that I loved. I still think it's a pretty and decorative deck that suggests delicacy and times long past--but it can be pretty bland in comparison to many historic Bolognese patterns.

In a way, the Neoclassical 1806-1811/Ancient Tarots of Lombardy might be a transitional style that reflected when the Milanese area of the Kingdoms within Italy was under Napoleanic influence. You might be right, it's closer and a happier comparison looking at the Ancient Tarot of Bologna/Zoni Tarot with a Milanese-produced Marseilles style like...the Soprafino patterns...and the Lombardy might have some similarities in the majors...but perhaps the minors be more a fit with Latin-suited card patterns?

I'm thinking out loud and likely overstating the differences and similarities from memory...sorry to be a latecomer to this thread.

Best,

Cerulean
 

kwaw

kwaw said:
and I think the Queen of Batons shepherdess is Rachel

Collaert_DeVos_Rachel2.jpg


"While he was still speaking to them, Rachel came with her father's sheep, for she was a shepherdess." Genesis 29:9

With scene of Jacob with Leah and Rachel in the background.

Genesis 29:16 Now Laban had two daughters: the name of the elder was Leah, and the name of the younger was Rachel.
 

Moonbow

I was looking at the Queens too, do you think that the Queen of Coins could be Eve? Or is that a bit of a stretch?

Any ideas for the Queen of Cups, a cook or Innkeeper maybe?

Nice work on the translations too Kwaw.
 

prudence

wow, great images Kwaw. Rachel is quite the sexy lady! (I am trying very hard not to mention her nipples) Her hat is really interesting too.

I thought Kwaw also did relate the Cups Queen to some historical/biblical figure too... I can go check.
 

kwaw

prudence said:
I thought Kwaw also did relate the Cups Queen to some historical/biblical figure too... I can go check.

Well, spinning is emblematic of both Eve and Mary, but while there is the association, the biblical figures are more commonly shown with a distaff:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hunterian_Psalter_c._1170_Eve_spinning.jpg

As for a biblical cook there is the King Nabal's wife abigail? (She prepared food to appease David who had vowed to slaughter all who belonged to Nabal for his insults and unjust behaviour). The drunken King Nabal is struck down by God and Abigail becomes one of the wives of David.

But while Rachel and Judith I think are pretty well certain, I am not convinced the other two queens are biblical figures.

... Abigail made haste, and took two hundred loaves, and two bottles* of wine, and five sheep ready dressed, and five measures of parched corn, and an hundred clusters of raisins, and two hundred cakes of figs, and laid them on asses.

There are no roasted chickens

But she does have a drunken King of a husband...


Kwaw
*The original hebrew is nbl – the name of the King, which has the meaning of 'Fool', also means skin-bag, earthenware jar, cask or pitcher so a better translation would be two wineskin – so there is play on Nabal, Fool and WineSkin - but it also has another meaning of a musical instrument - a harp or lyre giving a connection to David as a musician perhaps, but according to some was considered a type of bag-pipe giving its connection with skin bags, but also a pun on her drunken husbands name Nabal, her 'fool' of a husband was literally a 'wind-bag' given to the ‘wineskin’ and succeeded by the ‘musician’.

It is unlikely the bagpipe was known among biblical jews, the interpretation as such is medieval. Here is an image of a Jewish Haggadah of the 14th century showing a player of bagpipes:

http://www.hotpipes.com/barc.html

The fool we may note in other decks plays the bag-pipes, playing on the connection between fool and bag of wind.