Liber lll vel Jugorum

And I just noticed two in that post.

Yes, I'm counting written communication.

\m/ Kat

Well, for what it's worth: If you "punish" yourself by "having to do" an action that you actually think is a good thing--like keeping a tidy kitchen or exercising for strong abs--you will end up, perhaps extinguishing the behaviors you want to get rid of, yes, but also with a lot of dirty dishes and an exercise-resistent belly.

Both the rubber band and the "write it down" method are used to help people quit the serious addiction to cigarettes.

Creatures that stubbornly ignore the consequences of their actions generally don't survive long enough to reproduce themselves--the ones that learn do survive and so do their kids.

There's tons of evidence that reinforcing desired behaviors is the most direct and effective way to change them. This means rewarding yourself for speaking as you would like to speak, for example, or for sitting with a more varied and limber posture. Rather than trying to "break" your habit, "make" a new way of being.

So, like, good luck to you both, and I'm keeping my legs crossed that you'll find a happy conclusion to your experiments!

Debra said:

So, like, good luck to you both, and I'm keeping my legs crossed that you'll find a happy conclusion to your experiments!

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LOL Thanks. I'd rather not think of mine as an experiment, though, but rather a constructive activity. Which leads to . . .

Debra said:

Rather than trying to "break" your habit, "make" a new way of being.

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Yes, I thought at length about this today, and I'm rewarding myself with praise and wee treats (a good long bath with mud mask tonight) for the times I do get it right. But at its heart, "good" behaviour, or the desired behaviour, is too nebulous and ongoing to reward constantly, and impromptu to demand like training a dog. Hence, the "bad" behaviours have to be eliminated.

At least, that's the conclusion I came up with.

\m/ Kat

Kind of two different things going on, I think.

One is actually changing a behavior that is dysfunctional or aesthetically displeasing or otherwise icky.

Using "like" as in, like, um, er, hm, a verbal tic might be an example.

Using "like" to indicate likeness, like when one uses "like" to mean "as in," is neither dysfunctional nor aesthetically displeasing. The two "likes" you used in your post were helpful for, um, communicating.

So what you've targeted--the one word--is rather broader than your actual goal, and also perhaps rather narrower, if your goal is to sound more polished in your speech (not that I've ever seen your speech as anything other than articulate!).

So I'll throw a little monkey wrench in here and mention that many times the er/ems/uhs serve an important function for both speakers and listeners, as pauses which allow a moment to refresh without ending the thought.

But I think Crowley is talking more about testing oneself without "reason," simply to show whatever it is he is trying to show. Lik laving out on lttr from vry spokn or writtn word....why do that, xcpt to tst onslf?

thorhammer said:

EPIC fail. But not, I will say, unmitigated.

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Thorhammer, practicing Jugorum for a full day right from the start is a big ask for most people. I think you've just discovered that the hard way. I did too. It's perfectly ok to start with a more limited practice and build up from there. You can define a set time period in which to practice your discipline. Begin with and hour if you like and expand from there.

I'm a big believer in self-control. But physically punishing yourself? Not so much.

I guess I believe in a non-physical Jugorum. You mess up and say "Oh crap. I better not do that again." You connect that action with that feeling and then don't do it again.



P.S.
I think doing the dishes could help you gain self-control, but I agree that it shouldn't be your way of punishing yourself.

It should become an example of doing something you hate to do just because you know it's right. That's what self-control's all about, and that's why you'd be a better person because of it.

Curtis Penfold said:

I'm a big believer in self-control. But physically punishing yourself? Not so much.

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You're focusing on the wrong bit, CP. Jugorum isn't about physical punishment. It's purpose is to set up a vigilance reflex within the mind. The short sharp shock is merely a means to end, not an end in itself.

Debra said:

Kind of two different things going on, I think.

One is actually changing a behavior that is dysfunctional or aesthetically displeasing or otherwise icky.

Using "like" as in, like, um, er, hm, a verbal tic might be an example.

Using "like" to indicate likeness, like when one uses "like" to mean "as in," is neither dysfunctional nor aesthetically displeasing. The two "likes" you used in your post were helpful for, um, communicating.

So what you've targeted--the one word--is rather broader than your actual goal, and also perhaps rather narrower, if your goal is to sound more polished in your speech (not that I've ever seen your speech as anything other than articulate!).

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Thankyou and thankyou. I suppose in a way, it's a bit of both, but more of the first. It's not so much about becoming more polished, as being more in control of how I express my thoughts.

Aeon - thanks for the encouragement, but I'm an all or nothin' kinda girl. That having been said, exhaustion wore me down this evening and I know I missed a few snaps of the band. Eh. I'm sure I'll make up for them tomorrow.

I still don't know what you meant when you talked about the robot, but I've noticed another robot thing in my own experience today. The robot is the problem - it speaks my thoughts without allowing me the time to decide how I will express them. It's getting in my way and must be silenced. For now.

\m/ Kat

thorhammer said:

I still don't know what you meant when you talked about the robot

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When you are focused and engaged in your awareness practice you are fully present in the moment. You're aware of what's going through your mind and what actions you are performing to a much higher degree than normal.

But, for example, what happens during that casual conversation where you let your guard down. You say your forbidden word X number of times and don't even realise it until later. If you had been fully "present" in the moment you would have caught yourself before the slip. So who makes these slips while you're not there? It's like an "auto-pilot" for consciousness.

Aeon418 said:

Thorhammer, practicing Jugorum for a full day right from the start is a big ask for most people. I think you've just discovered that the hard way. I did too. It's perfectly ok to start with a more limited practice and build up from there. You can define a set time period in which to practice your discipline. Begin with and hour if you like and expand from there.

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I was wondering about this. I first read about it in Yoga for Magick as a tool for meditation. Short term. Then read more about it and it seemed long term.

I lost track also as I left the house without a notepad. It was more than ten fingers.
Also I saw that it is more of a Unicorn than a Ox. A whole array of thoughts created my Unicorn. I suspect it is a reaction to stress.
Today I will try using the rubber band for awareness to test my new theory.

AW