Can this Mars Retrograde mess be repaired?

firecatpickles

This is an horary chart which is not based on anyone's birth data. It is a chart cast with the current date, and planets, houses, etc. are assigned to the acting characters (you etal) within the chart.

I am fascinated by all this and rush off to look up some more stuff on the horary!
 

DarkElectric

Fire Cat said:
This is an horary chart which is not based on anyone's birth data. It is a chart cast with the current date, and planets, houses, etc. are assigned to the acting characters (you etal) within the chart.

I am fascinated by all this and rush off to look up some more stuff on the horary!

Does this mean the data will be consistently changing? Concerning the significators, I mean.
Will I always have Mercury as a significator, will he always have Jupiter, or will these change too, given the date, time, and the question which is being asked?:confused:
 

firecatpickles

That one's too technical for me lol. I am a newbie on this end.

I think your significator can change.
 

DarkElectric

I'm a newbie too. It's getting somewhat less confusing the more I read, but there's really a lot to it. Sometimes the more I think I understand, the less I really do. *Sigh*. It takes time. I've been reading tarot for 15 years now. That confused me quite a bit at first too. Now it only confuses me once in a while!
 

Astraea

A horary chart is cast for the time and place that the astrologer understands the question. Significators are thus dependent on time and place, as all 12 signs of the zodiac will rise (appear to cross the earth's horizon - hence the term "rising sign") within each 24-hour period. So yes, significators can change. One of the most remarkable features of horary astrology is that, even though significators can change, it is not possible to fudge an answer as long as certain astrological conditions (known as "considerations before judgement") are met. When significators don't change, or when they remain significantly related to one another through rulership (as in the two charts for thematically related questions that Minderwiz drew for you, Dark Electric), it is as if the universe were underscoring its answer.
 

DarkElectric

Astraea said:
A horary chart is cast for the time and place that the astrologer understands the question. Significators are thus dependent on time and place, as all 12 signs of the zodiac will rise (appear to cross the earth's horizon - hence the term "rising sign") within each 24-hour period. So yes, significators can change. One of the most remarkable features of horary astrology is that, even though significators can change, it is not possible to fudge an answer as long as certain astrological conditions (known as "considerations before judgement") are met. When significators don't change, or when they remain significantly related to one another through rulership (as in the two charts for thematically related questions that Minderwiz drew for you, Dark Electric), it is as if the universe were underscoring its answer.

Ah, alright.
I was wondering if I'd waited several days before asking my second question what I would have gotten. ( Will I try anything, anything to encourage things to work out between myself and this man? :p )

Could a horary reading be understood as a description of the planetary energies influencing a given situation on a certain day at a certain time, sort of a snapshot of the energies at work at that moment, and later, as things move through their natural cycle, the pattern of events changes?
 

Minderwiz

DE,

To answer your (and others) questions about significators:

A horary chart is cast for the moment that the Astrologer understands the question. It is, or should be, the culmination of a series of events, whereby the person asking the question (the 'querent') thinks carefully about what it is they want to know and phrases the question as best they can.

They then negotiate the question with the Astrologer who will answer their question. This negotiation is to ensure that the Astrologer knows and understands the question and the question is one that can be answered by the horary process (there are very few that can't but one that would fall into that category would be 'Does God exist?'

Once the Astrologer knows and understands, the moment is right for the question to be asked and a chart is cast. The chart is a chart for the question and is in no way derived from birth charts or any other charts.

In both the charts I cast, one in the morning and one in the mid afternoon and on different days, I ended up with a Mercury ruled sign on the Ascendant and a Jupiter ruled sign on the descendent. For the 'universe' at least the two questions are intimately related (and of course you know that they are).

Unless there are very good reasons not to, the planet ruling the Ascendant is the significator asking the question, in this case Mercury signifies you in both charts. In questions about relationships, as these were, the other person is signified by the planet ruling the Descendent. In both cases this was Jupiter, so Jupiter signifies him. In the second horary, Jupiter is in the Seventh House - the House it rules, and also in Pisces, one of the signs it rules. This signifies that in the situation he is in his own home and as the question relates to him leaving his wife or getting her to leave him, that is actually quite important. If his wife were signified by the Moon, she too would be at home with him (the Moon being in the seventh and in Pisces) In that sense she, the wife, is in Pisces, that is nothing to do with her Sun sign at all.

Now do signifcators change regularly. Horary practitioners take the view that if you keep asking the same, or very closely related questions with short intervals in between that you will end up with charts that don't make sense. This is thought to be because the scenario in which this would happen is that the querent will not take 'No' for an answer (obviously if the first answer is what they want to hear they don't ask again). If the querent will not listen to the answer then the 'universe' will not bother repeating the answer.

Now it's a different matter if the querent, goes away, thinks about the answer waits for the circumstances to change and then comes back and asks again. Thus if DE were to wait till he actually does leave his wife, or throws her out, then the circumstances have changed and further questions could be asked - though I think she would be on the first flight there, instead!!

Modern Astrologers tend to regard horary with suspicion because it doesn't fit in with a modern view of the universe. It is base much more on the idea that the universe is not disinterested matter but is part of an organised living Cosmos that binds us all together. 'As above, so below....' For the Tarot Reader the ideas behind horary will be very familiar, even if the methods are not.

Going back to the main theme, I think Astraea's advice seems very sensible. Conditions may change and clearly you have plans to get there quickly if necessary. Astraea also thought that the coming opposition of Mercury and Saturn might well mark a change in circumstances. As I think from memory that is next week, that's not a long delay and you could well stll go ahead with your plans if his circumstances change in the desired manner.
 

DarkElectric

Thanks for explaining the horary chart in finer detail, Minderwiz.
I think I may be somewhat catching on!~

We've been working on his "escape plan" for several months now, He's still assuring me he's going to do it, that he's telling her "Sayonara" on either the 27th or 28th of March, and that we'll be together, on the 29th.


Even though I don't want to doubt him, I do, and unfortunately, I will doubt until I get on that plane the 29th of March because he's told me "the deed is done". My pessimism is telling me that he'll chicken out at the last instant, although I have NO proof. Do I think he's acting "funny"? Yes. He did tell me that knowing we're going to be together in person has caused him to lose interest somewhat in internet communication, because the real thing is so much better. ( Yes, I have proof of that!)

Two weeks. I'll be observing a lot in two weeks time.
 

Minderwiz

Hi DE,

I think the horaries confirm that you are right to have such doubts. Not because he is being deceitful but because his interests and motivations lie elsewhere - with his daughter and through her his wife. This may be the result of the drugs, and hence an abnormal state of mind for him, but that is the reality of the situation.

Horary is an ancient technique, it predates the Tarot by a millenium and a half, at least. but in many ways the same princilples apply. The querent must have a real interest and connection to the question (you obviously do) and the planets (like the cards) cannot be treaated capriciously

You asked Astraea whether asking your question a little later or a little earlier would change the significators and presumably change the answer. Yes asking earlier or later might well change the significators but the answer might still essentially have been the same. In the past I've done horaries for both the location and time of the person asking as well as myself, because of long delays in me reading the question. I've therefore had different signs rising and different significators but the answers have been essentially the same.

I've not tried repeatedly asking the same question at regular intervals during the day but to do so is not really asking the question in a serious manner, there is a hidden but more real question 'Does Horary work?' the question actually asked is not important to the querent and therefore the answers may well vary after a time - but that is not because the circumstances have changed or one answer is 'wrong' it's because the querent is abusing the method - I'm sure this would hold for Tarot too.

Real circumstances do change, as planetary configurations change and thus questions asked then may yield different answers - but that requires a waiting period, from as little as a week or two to months or even years in some circumstances.
 

DarkElectric

Hi Minderwiz,

I definitely wouldn't say that the horaries are not describing the situation accurately, I'd say they're quite precise in describing the reasons behind the current situation, something that he has been either unwilling,unable, or unaware of within himself to be able to do.

I'm interested to see what occurs during the upcoming opposition of Saturn and Mercury.
Astraea said this would be the 18-19 of March. Showdown time? Aren't those the Ides of March? Caesar beware!

I feel the distancing effect, which was mentioned by the horary. It's interesting, because 'she' is away on business, and usually he's quite eager to talk to me, play the video game we play, be with me as much as we can be in a cyber world. But not this time.

So I'm hurt, and getting angry with him, because after two years of assurances, at the crucial moment, when we've decided to take the leap and actually be together, I'm getting the distinct impression that he's running away. But he's not telling me. I wonder when he intends to tell me, or if he's subconsciously trying to push buttons so I'm the one who ends this in anger, and he's off the hook with everyone.

The horary gives a concise explanation, not for the "What is he doing" but "Why is he doing it".
I think there was some reason I bumbled back onto the forums again, came to the astrology section seeking information on what a Mars retrograde meant, and through your kindness, received the information which will encourage me to "dodge a bullet" so to speak. :)