Crowley and bestiality?

[Zephyros]

I was asked to write a commentary, of sorts, to a film on YouTube called "The Wickedest Man in the World." The film itself is nothing special, full of easily shattered lies and other things taken out of context. Now, far be it for me to say the man was a saint (whatever that means) and I certainly don't mean to sound like a too-easily offended prude and I can accept the mountain climbing incident and the episode with Neuburg... but the part about Hirsig and the goat did strike me.

I must admit to not having read any biographies yet, and the internet is of no use in this case. So what did happen with the goat?

 

[nicky]

I would tell you but the goat has me on a gag order

 

[Laura Borealis]

I never heard this one.

 

[Zephyros]

From Wikipedia: After Raoul Loveday died from drinking contaminated water at Cefalù (the film attributes the cause of his death to drinking the blood of a sacrificed cat), Mary Butts reported in one of her journals about Hirsig that a he-goat was induced to copulate with her at the Abbey of Thelema (an account corroborated by Crowley himself in an unpublished passage in one of his diaries).

ETA: To be sure, this was a bitter account from Loveday's widow after returning home, so this isn't the most objective of accounts, but Wikipedia says this is confirmed in a diary, and the source cited is Perdurabo by Kaczinsky.

 

[roppo]

The goat episode is, I believe, in the diary of Mary Butts. It's found in the pages of many Crowley bios, for example,
Symonds The Great Beast (1951) p. 177,
Franicis X. King The Magical World of Aleister Crowley (1977) p. 136,
Sutin Do What Thou Wilt (2000), p.293,
and Kaczinsky Perdurabo (2010). p. 373.

Kaczinsky quoated a passage from Crowley's diary supporting the episode.

In a word, Crowley planned to do the ancient ritual of human-animal intercourse and Hirsig agreed to do the part. But the goat was not cooperative so ...

I don't want to be a spoiller so I stop here. It's one of the bizarrest (and somewhat funny) scenes in the Beast's life.

 

[Richard]

I believe that the goat is also associated with initiation into the First Degree of Freemasonry. Before the ceremony, the candidate is told to "watch out for the goat" or "hope you survive the goat" and things like that. After having been advised to wear clean underwear to the initiation, some candidates might have second thoughts about joining the supposedly august fraternity.

 

[ravenest]

Mary Butts reported in one of her journals about Hirsig that a he-goat was induced to copulate with her at the Abbey of Thelema .

A he goat? !! . I'm glad they cleared THAT up.

 

[ravenest]

I believe that the goat is also associated with initiation into the First Degree of Freemasonry. Before the ceremony, the candidate is told to "watch out for the goat" or "hope you survive the goat" and things like that. After having been advised to wear clean underwear to the initiation, some candidates might have second thoughts about joining the supposedly august fraternity.

Serious?
"Associated" ?
Have you read the first degree ceremony? Its readily availible.
It is an interesting 'association' though if you track the source of these type of things. (Secret fraternity / evil conspiracy type stuff I mean.)
As far as any fraternal / jocular / in jokes might go around I've done it myself (not the goat I mean, but the joke); the joke and other comments like it originate in silly supposed stories about what people are supposed to be doing. Sort of like when someone is going to a covern meeting and someone says "dont forget the bats blood". Or their first tattoo - OOOH thats gonna really hurt!

But not all 'Freemasons' are the same, maybe somewhere there is a group that says they are masons and base their rites on what others think they do - yikes!

(It would have to be a he-goat though ... if it were the Masons )

 

[Zephyros]

A he goat? !! . I'm glad they cleared THAT up.

Yes, lesbian goat-sex would be an abomination!!

So, what did happen with the venerable gentleman bovine?

 

[Daaave]

(Spoiler->)

So, what did happen with the venerable gentleman bovine?

Sutin gives this account in 'Do What Thou Wilt'-

The goat, however, refused to comply; somewhat later, the Beast himself engaged in sexual magic with the Scarlet Woman to remedy the omission. But the ritual proceeded on course, with the sacrifice carried out. According to a later account of this ritual by Butts, Hirsig- her bare back covered with goat's blood after the Beast had slit its throat- had asked Butts, “What shall I do now?' And Mary had replied, 'I'd have a bath if I were you'.”

I think his sources for that are diary entries from Crowley and Butts and the '...bath' quote is from Symonds- I think so anyway- the references in DWTW are a mess.