This conversation has gotten quite interesting, although the question was just about physical qualities... Since, it's expanded though, and because I know a devil quite personally, I'm going to chime in.
53rdspirit said:
An abusive (verbal, mental, physical) relationship--and specifically the abusive individual in a relationship. This particular blend of control is well-depicted in symbolism of the card.
Careful with the abuse of the Devil, sometimes his victims are quite voluntary. And besides, he has NO IDEA that he is being abusive, he is just following his nature. You want this? I can give it to you, but of course it costs you... Understand which you want. If you cross him in a way that it causes him to lose face, though, he becomes a back stabber and will tell everyone about all of your foibles, regardless of the truth that both you and he know, the foibles were his. The devil always sets everything up, makes sure all of his ducks are in order so that nothing can EVER come back on him... even if it does. If he leaves a trail of destruction in his path, in his eyes, that destruction was the fault of his victim...
One thing important to note, although the Devil desires full control of all of his followers, not all of his followers are victims, sometimes in his desire for attainment, the Devil GIVES just what the follower needs in order to continue to follow. Such followers though, are often quite aware of the nature of their relationship, but are quite satisfied to be in it, so long as it feels THEIR needs. In a sense being Devils themselves.
starseer said:
The devil knows everything about you while you nothing about him/her. How is this so? Because the Devil is a master manipulator, and he/she has baited you for personal information under the guise of caring and supporting you. All the while, collecting precious personal knowledge about you, your character, and your WEAKNESSES. Of course, all this to eventually use it against you, or better yet use it to unfairly influence or control you.
Yes, this is him to a T!
I'm glad you said what you did about the planets in Capricorn, I have no less than 3 in Capricorn... Truth be told, I was one of his voluntary victims... I knew full well his nature. That he was using me for all he could get, but fortunately, I was getting what I needed in return, so although it was a devil relationship, it was reciprocal... interesting take on the Capricorn though. And posts like yours remind me that I do not know as much as I would like to about astrology.
rcb30872 said:
But it could be someone that has made up his mind about something, and will do whatever is necessary to get to where he is going, good or bad. But being on the good side, it could simply mean, as a lot of the cards depicts the Devil as the goat, as it is related to Capricorn, then that would be the mountain goat. He starts off at the bottom, and he steadfastly moves up the ladder, or in the mountain goat's case, the mountain. He puts in a lot of work and effort to get there, he might have a few twists and turns along the way, and he might slip down a few of the rungs on the way to the top of the ladder, but just through sheer determination, and to put the hard work into getting there, he does get there eventually. It might mean that he misses out on a lot of pleasures before he gets there. But when he gets there, then he can sort of relax, not totally, and indulge himself. If it is in association with Capricorn, then that would be associated with someone that is serious, if young, looks older than that what they really are, if old, looks younger than what they really are. This sort of person has to had to endure a lot of hardships early on life, and in some instances has had to grow up a lot faster than your average person, thus why he appears older when he is young.
Just rambling as usual. But, people who I have seen post that there are positives and negatives to any card, have posted to say that the Devil is basically scum of the earth, sure, he may be if it negative, but what about the positive? Also, when you mentioned manipulation, isn't that the Magician?
I do believe that the stubbornness that is the Capricorn goat and the stubbornness that is the Devil Goat may entirely have two different reasons. The Capricorn will do it because they feel very strongly that they can against all odds, very often the Capricorn's stubbornness will have an "I can too do it, I'll show you" aspect to it whereas the Devil is quite different... he wants it because there is a sense of entitlement to it. Not because he wants it, but instead because he for some reason thinks he deserves it... In that sense, is where you see the overlap. The Devil who is a good devil is working on an altruistic path and works it hard because it is so diehard necessary that it happen, he will work those 20 hour days and make it happen. Imagine the head of a Fair Trade organization who bangs his head against the wall trying to help people but finds his hands are tied by the wheels of non-profit, so in order to obtain his focus, leaves to go the corporate route... This may seem like selling out, but it is his devilish determination that he will make it happen, even though he now can't do it the way he had originally hoped; without big business. There is, as Thirteen pointed out, that the differences are quite subtle. Again, I don't know enough about astrology to really discuss this aspect of it... yet.
John Callaghan said:
FWIW, I almost always see the devil as a positive card in a reading. It's a card of liberation. A curtain pulled back, to reveal a truth. An onset of personal rebellion.
Incidentally, I identify very strongly with this card personally. I think there are many illusions that are too strong for most people in the world to shake. I see it as a sort of mission to bring the light to as many as possible. (And remember, the devil is also the "bringer of light" in the western mythos. Is enlightenment bad?)
I very much like this concept. Sometimes the Devil enlightens us by bringing to light negative parts of ourselves that we didn't know existed... That can be a good thing, because we recognize it and move away from it; it can also be bad because sometimes we see it, recognize it for what it is and don't care. More often than not, siding with the devil, in my mind, regardless of the altruistic intent of the action, requires a paying of the piper later.
balenciaga said:
Don't laugh, but I worked for a Capricorn boss and he was a controlling you-know-what.
Maybe this had to do with the Devil/Saturn/Capricorn explanation. Because I can see Saturn's constraints in Capricorns - they do need to control things, even passive-aggressively if need be. And they have plenty of good traits.
But I do not see positives in the Devil Tarot card, only things that can limit your own sense of power. I see his appearance in a spread as a warning that one is walking on dangerous ground, seeing stability in a situation they have little control over. They might think they are making a good and clearly thought out decision, but it is not that at all. The thinking is skewed.
That's why tarot is such a good guide for the path.
I am the Devil as it pertains to my business. I want everyone to bow to my whim and will go out of my way to make it happen, but I am not mean and nasty about it. I have something that people want and I am willing to manipulate them into my world so that they can get it and once they're in, they're hooked -- As long as they choose to be. As Thirteen pointed out, the Devil is not really a Devil... a pact with the real devil, if given its true meaning would be ultimately unbreakable. A pact with a Tarot devil is breakable, as soon as we choose to no longer be part of that bond... The Devil may not like it, but he cannot stop it.
I think too, that the their clearly thought out decision is actually clearly thought out and well planned... The problem arises for the Devil in that he only clearly plans out his positive outcome... He never thinks for a second that his plan will fail, because his "victims" are willing (even if blackmailed into the willingness), ergo, if that willingness fails, no one is more surprised than the Devil.
Wow... I said a mouthful.
I was going to suggest >Poor misunderstood fellow< threads as well, but I see someone else beat me to it.
I love the Devil, anyone with a drive to succeed wants this guys' power on his side. Think about it... Say you're in Darfur and you have to get that truckload of grain to the refugee camp. Isn't doing it at all costs important? A devil is a devil... good or bad. Those people need him to lie and cheat and bribe to get them the grain and they will even turn a blind eye if some badass Government official somehow ends up dead in order that they may eat??? Is that bad? I don't think so. And if I were the one starving to death... I want that Devil on my side.
