Did Shakespeare play tarot?

Fulgour

zeitgeist

Much like the opening scene...far from mere stage business,
the entire zeitgeist is revealed... with all it's misproportions.
Much like how the first card in a Tarot reading reveals most.
 

jmd

A fantastic thread to read through.

It's has been some time since I visited the British Museum [BM], and at the time was more interested in looking through various Marseille-type decks... but do seem to recall that a small number of early hand-painted decks or, rather, partial decks (from the 16th c.?) were in store.

A number of questions arise - for which I certainly did not take notes at the time.

On of these is whether the Italianate decks in the BM were acquired from outside the UK at a much later date, or whether they form part of a London-based heritage from a very early date. Another question, and of course as important, is whether the deck(s) resemble in any precise fashion the depictions that can be found in Shakespeare.

Having said this, I of course also agree wholeheartedly that numerous depictions occurs in numerous places - both public and more 'private' - during the times being considered.
 

Rosanne

I said this in another thread as Kwaw earlier mentioned

Rosanne said:
Hmm there is a verse Hamlet V scene 11 where Osric speaks- that reminds me that it is thought the suits of Tarot reflected the social structure...The Gentry (spades? Wands/Batons?)

nay, good my lord:for mine ease, in good faith.
Sir, here is newly come to court Laertes; believe me,
an absolute gentleman, full of most excellent differences,
of very soft society and great showing: indeed
to speak feelingly of him, he is the card or calendar of Gentry........


What would 'he is the card or calendar of Gentry' mean? Does it mean calling Card (did they have calling cards then?)? or as I supposed, the card showing social structure- Tarot? It seems to me that it would be hiding in plain sight if Tarot was played by Shakespeare ~Rosanne
 

kwaw

Rosanne said:
What would 'he is the card or calendar of Gentry' mean? ~Rosanne

ACCORDING TO JOHNSON (1765) : the card or kalendar of gentry “The general preceptor of elegance; the card by which a gentleman is to direct his course; the calendar by which he is to chuse his time, that what he does may be both excellent and seasonable.”

for you shall find in him the continent of what part a gentleman would see: “You shall find him containing and comprising every quality which a gentleman would desire to contemplate for imitation. I know not but it should be read, You shall find him the continent.”

According to Ritson (1783 )
To do any thing by the card, says dr. Johnson, is to do it with nice observation; the card, being, according to him, the paper on which the different points of the compass were described: that is, the compass-paper itself. But it is not. The card is a sea-chart, still so termed by mariners: and the word is afterwards used by Osrick in the same sense. Hamlets meaning will therefor be, we must speak directly foreward, in a straight line, plainly to the point.”

(In reference to the ‘quick sale’ spoken of by Hamlet just afterwards: ‘sale’ has usually been spelt sail, perhaps punning between sale, sail and card as sea-chart – Kwaw]

According to CALDECOTT (1819) for you shall find in him the continent of what part a gentleman would see : “Literally the contents or sum of whatever, &c.: but a quibble is also intended, ‘a specimen or exhibition of such part of the continent or whole world of man, as a gentleman need see.’ And in the same way Boyet calls Rosaline, ‘my continent of beauty,’ i.e. universe of beauty, the whole , that it contains . Johnson in his Dict. says, the use of this word in this sense (it is very frequent in Shakespeare) is confined to our author.”

According to BOSWELL (1821, 21): “a sea-chart.”for you shall find in him the continent of what part a gentleman would see = “that which contains.”

According to DELIUS (1854) : “An ihm lässt adliges Wesen (gentry) wie auf einer Karte oder in einem Kalender also nach Ort und Zeit studiren.” [In him the noble gentry allow him to be as a card or in a calendar, also to study according to space and time.]

ACCORDING TO CLARKE & CLARKE (1864-68, rpt. 1874-78): “You shall find him to be the container and compriser of whatsoever meritorious accomplishment one gentleman would wish to behold in another.’ By ‘the card or calendar of gentry’ Osric probably means one of those ‘books of good manners’ mentioned by Touchstone in the passage referred to in Note 37 Act v., [AYL].”

ACCORDING TO BARNETT (1889): that which completely contains; as a card or chart of a continent contains a complete representation of the continent.”

According to E. Cobham Brewer's 'Dictionary of Phrase and Fable' 1898.
"The card is a card of a compass, containing all its points. Laertës is the card of gentry, in whom may be seen all its points." [all the points/qualities by which a man of gentry is distinguished - a man to be imitated as the exemplar of gentry - Kwaw]

Probably you can find many more: do google search on:

card calendar gentry

Kwaw
 

Rosanne

A punster after mine own heart is Shakespeare! Thanks Kwaw I will look on the web. I should have remembered about the sea chart card- it is a term in point to point sail racing. Its sooo long since I read any of the Bard- but all those years ago have not been wasted- he pops up all over the place. I think had he known Tarot he would have included it in a play- so rich a theme would it have been. ~Rosanne
 

kwaw

kwaw said:
According to Ritson (1783 )
To do any thing by the card, says dr. Johnson, is to do it with nice observation; the card, being, according to him, the paper on which the different points of the compass were described: that is, the compass-paper itself. But it is not. The card is a sea-chart, still so termed by mariners: and the word is afterwards used by Osrick in the same sense. Hamlets meaning will therefor be, we must speak directly foreward, in a straight line, plainly to the point.”

(In reference to the ‘quick sale’ spoken of by Hamlet just afterwards: ‘sale’ has usually been spelt sail, perhaps punning between sale, sail and card as sea-chart – Kwaw]

Kwaw

In keeping with a nautical theme note the first record of the use of the word 'deck' ('a ships platform') in reference to 'a pack of cards' occurs in Shakespeare, in Henry VI, 1593:

"But whiles he thought to steale the single Ten, The King was slyly finger'd from the Deck."

Well..."hello sailor" :-o
Kwaw
 

John Meador

more curiosities; a wink & a nod

re: the word 'deck' ('a ships platform') in reference to 'a pack of cards' occurs in Shakespeare, in Henry VI

see Diane O'Donovan-
Shipman's Guide: early card packs and the Arcana
www.wopc.co.uk/downloads/shipman.pdf

In the Tempest, the first word, "Boteswain!" immediately indicates that the action occurs on deck. And of course the bit about him drowning/hanging.
Later, in scene 5
Re-enter ARIEL, with the Master and Boatswain amazedly following
[Gon. ]
O, look, sir, look, sir! here is more of us. 240
I prophesi’d, if a gallows were on land,
This fellow could not drown. Now, blasphemy,
That swear’st grace o’erboard, not an oath on shore?
Hast thou no mouth by land? What is the news?

The Boteswain tells the story of having been awakened from a magical sleep that had lasted since the tempest.

Khunrath (ie his Theatre of Eternal Wisdom) or Shakespeare?
"In the Spring 2001 Shakespeare Oxford Society Newsletter, Mark K. Anderson considers a curious anomaly in the history of the latter text, which was first published in Kassel in Latin (1615)."

"For conclusion of our Confession [Confessio Fraternitatis] we most earnestly admonish you, that you cast away, if not all yet most of the worthless books of pseudocymists [sic] to whom is is a jest to apply the Most Holy Triniity to vain things, or to deceive men with monstrous symbols and enigmas, or to profit by the curiousity of the credulous; our age doth produce many such [examples], one of the greatest being a stage-player, a man with sufficient ingenuity for imposition."

You won't find this passage on the cited url or in most texts reproduced on the internet, which follow the early English translation of Thomas Vaughan (1652), which omits this passage. The Latin reads: "Quales aetas nostra plurmos produxit: unum ex iis praecipuum amphithaetralem histrionem, hominem ad imponendum satis ingeniosum."
http://www.shakespearefellowship.org/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=8804&page=&vc=1

HOLOFERNES:
Via, goodman Dull! thou hast spoken no word all this while.
DULL:
Nor understood none neither, sir.
-Love's Labour's Lost

"This is as strange a maze as e'er men trod, / And there is in this business more than nature / Was ever conduct of."
-Tempest
 

Rosanne

John Meador said:
see Diane O'Donovan-
Shipman's Guide: early card packs and the Arcana
www.wopc.co.uk/downloads/shipman.pdf

Wonderful! who is this maid O'Donovan who dances in with sea-charts and cards- cunning'st patterns of excelling nature.. :D and..

"For conclusion of our Confession [Confessio Fraternitatis] we most earnestly admonish you, that you cast away, if not all yet most of the worthless books of pseudocymists [sic] to whom is is a jest to apply the Most Holy Triniity to vain things, or to deceive men with monstrous symbols and enigmas, or to profit by the curiousity of the credulous; our age doth produce many such [examples], one of the greatest being a stage-player, a man with sufficient ingenuity for imposition."
:bugeyed:
May I offer Romeo "O, I am Fortune's Fool" -whilst not from Six months in a leaky boat... as sung by Tim Finn..
Kwaw said:
"But whiles he thought to steale the single Ten, The King was slyly finger'd from the Deck."
Well..."hello sailor" :-o
Rotfl nothing 'imposition' about that plainess- Thank you both! ~Rosanne
 

Dancing Bear

I am huge fan Of Shakespeare
My signature says it all...


Have I not here the best cards for the game.

William Shakespeare
King John

I have no idea whether he actually used them but he was definately aware of them, But i would think his enviroment would suggest he more than likely did...