Female Knights and Page - Cary Yale deck

Bernice

You've really been working hard at this Lady Iron Side. I think that the original understanding of the Elements does have more depth than the RWS :)

Now anyone with a deck that has female Knights & Pages, and wants to use Mels' historical method, might consider replacing his 'male' meanings for them with these 'female' meanings.

Have I got this right? (Excuse long posting, just need to clarify)


~~~ Female Pages - main Element = Water ~~~

Female Page of Swords = WATER/AIR
Youthful wit, charisma and the ability to fascinate, Insight, create new ideas, using your mind, skills, and dexterity to organize, ability to extract confidences, initiate communication with others, using persuasive tactics, can suggest the use of language and communication skills, being witty, cunning and clever. Talent, Intelligent, a higher comprehending mind, independent thinker, impulsive, charm. originality, alert personality, assistant to scholar, empathetic, psychic discovery, she can channel her sexual energy in productive, creative, artistic, or spiritual activities, her sexual energy for a higher good.
RX emotional and intellectual dullness (RX) , Inability to concentrate (RX), sluggishness (RX),

Female Page of Staves = WATER/FIRE
Conquest, Gossip, slander, sorrow, regret, mercy, Rash actions, Gains from the misfortunes of others, Injured self-esteem, Destruction of others, She feels humiliated and defeated in a matter of love. Scattered energies, Impulsive, erratic behavior, Immaturity, doubts undermine and erode commitment and morale, adolescent just beginning the journey, overly confident in attitude and rash in your actions, Sexual frustration. She maybe taking a wrong course or making a wrong approach altogether.

Female Page of Cups = WATER/WATER
Has difficulty in launching new projects, An emotionally understanding person, psychic abilities, passive, dreamy, has an elfin charm which can be mischievous or irresponsible, Risk taker, cunning and can think on her feet, business partner, she worries, she wants her cake and eat it too, she gets embarrassed easily. she has a happy go luck attitude towards love and intimacy. she enjoy the pleasure of the moment without making firm commitments. she is content and sexually satisfied. she is practical and has no romantic delusions.
Rx letter, message.

Female Page of Coins = WATER/EARTH
Patient, strong, determined, harvest, abundance, grace, regal. assistant, satisfactory, eagerness to help others. practical and common sense. Fruitfulness and plenty, when work has been successfully accomplished or problems solved, solace, compromise,
Rx: excessive pleasure, overabundance, superfluity, loss of prestige, delays lack of appreciation.


~~~ Female Knights = main Element = FIRE ~~~

Female Knight of Swords = FIRE/AIR
She is a Independent minded type of person who is cautious to a degree, self - sufficient and doesn't need to depend on others, She doesn't always follow through with plans or promises, She desires freedom - which can effect the relationship side - possibility of separation/loss, She is curious about other ways of life with the desire to roam, Everything she does is done in time, She find it difficult to relax even if she has earned it, She is content to spend time by herself and at times can be protective if her contentment and safety is threatened,She has a quite self - confidence and awareness of self worth, She is disciplined in the creative production or innovations, however with her living a creative life this can be a struggle to get things started, She reaches her goal - but it will take some time - her time, She lives modestly and takes pleasure in the simple things, She is peace and serenity with good esteem, She has it all, but she needs for balance.

Female Knight of Cups = FIRE/WATER
Ingenuity, growth, hard-worker, Patience, and trust. She cultivates with care, she is slow /or slow progress, she is resourceful. Joyful, desire and fulfillment, love and expression, proper balance, grace, poise and charisma, giving without thought of return, creative imagination and inspiration, clairvoyance, her energies pour out into a good cause or to a long range vision. Imagination, daydreams, unrealistic attitudes, wishful thinking, indulgence in sexual pleasures, she imagines exciting possibilities and internally rehearsing the plans to achieve them. Shyness, Modesty, might leave behind what formerly attracted, nurtured emotionally sustained, or fascinated her. Travel, desire, emotionally pulled, has a sense of longing, spiritual quest, love, romance, and artist fulfillment, warmhearted and intimate in her affections, Balance between the active ego and inactive aspects of her emotions, this balance guides the ego by her higher self.

Female Knight of Coins = FIRE/EARTH
She is a lover, mistress, wife, girlfriend who is adored, she has such drive and ambition that there is potential for risky behavior, putting her safety and security at risk, which can affect others. She desires change and seeks new opportunities and more responsibilities which also can affect others. She takes a more practical approach to whatever she does. She is more focus and determined that she can lose sight of her other needs or others or what's going on around her, she is not afraid of hard work, which makes her a hardworking person, self - reliant and self efficient. However she is there for you through thick and thin. She goes around and around in circles, she has her ups and downs, she works a little bit harder than others to make things happen, she maybe slower at getting the tasks or what have you done, she experiences disruption in her environment, relationships etc, she may even need to relearn something in life, one step forward two steps back, She is adventurous, sometime may show instability, negligence and carelessness which brings about changes in her life.
~~~~~~~

So just the Knight of Batons to add.


Bee :)
 

Lady Iron Side

You've really been working hard at this Lady Iron Side. I think that the original understanding of the Elements does have more depth than the RWS

Yes that is why I have moved in that direction and this is why I need your help, way better method and far more balanced.

Those meaning I created, were based on the RWS system, that is why I got frustrated, and the Cards didn't make sense. so please with your help lets make sense of these cards. incorporating them into Mel's method as a part of his methods, His method is the best foundation so far to go by.
 

Bernice

Lady Iron Side said:
..........snip........
Those meaning I created, were based on the RWS system, that is why I got frustrated, and the Cards didn't make sense. so please with your help lets make sense of these cards. incorporating them into Mel's method as a part of his methods, His method is the best foundation so far to go by.
I'm afaid I'm not studying this deck at present. However I may look in from time to time and occasionally make a comment. Do you have an online link for some images of the cards you're using. I think that might help.


Bee :)
 

Lady Iron Side

Bernice said:
I'm afaid I'm not studying this deck at present. However I may look in from time to time and occasionally make a comment. Do you have an online link for some images of the cards you're using. I think that might help.


Bee :)

Thank you, your thoughts will be so welcomed, No I don't have a link to the cards yet, I was concerned about scanning my cards, and going against any copyright problems. so you know of link that may have images of the cards, that already has permission.

This is on my mind and I need to get out, so Then members have a clear understanding as to why I name the talbe as I did

Pre-Golden Dawn Table - using Mel's Old Fashion Method

King = Fire = Swords
Queen = Water = Coins
Knight (Male Knights) = Air = Cups
Page (Female Pages) = Earth = Staves

The purpose and reasoning behind naming the table - Pre-Golden Dawn using Mel's old fashioned method = Because His Method is predating the- Golden dawns system, he uses historical findings that date to the time of the deck creation, and he was correctly able to apply it with balance to these early decks.

I felt that I needed to explain so that I don't mislead members, in anyway as to altering his method, I am not, I am just incorporation these cards into his system as an enhancement in a positive manner. okay know that I have that off my mind.
 

Lady Iron Side

Added the Female Knight of Staves

Bernice said:
You've really been working hard at this Lady Iron Side. I think that the original understanding of the Elements does have more depth than the RWS :)

Now anyone with a deck that has female Knights & Pages, and wants to use Mels' historical method, might consider replacing his 'male' meanings for them with these 'female' meanings.

Have I got this right? (Excuse long posting, just need to clarify)


~~~ Female Pages - main Element = Water ~~~

Female Page of Swords = WATER/AIR
Youthful wit, charisma and the ability to fascinate, Insight, create new ideas, using your mind, skills, and dexterity to organize, ability to extract confidences, initiate communication with others, using persuasive tactics, can suggest the use of language and communication skills, being witty, cunning and clever. Talent, Intelligent, a higher comprehending mind, independent thinker, impulsive, charm. originality, alert personality, assistant to scholar, empathetic, psychic discovery, she can channel her sexual energy in productive, creative, artistic, or spiritual activities, her sexual energy for a higher good.
RX emotional and intellectual dullness (RX) , Inability to concentrate (RX), sluggishness (RX),

Female Page of Staves = WATER/FIRE
Conquest, Gossip, slander, sorrow, regret, mercy, Rash actions, Gains from the misfortunes of others, Injured self-esteem, Destruction of others, She feels humiliated and defeated in a matter of love. Scattered energies, Impulsive, erratic behavior, Immaturity, doubts undermine and erode commitment and morale, adolescent just beginning the journey, overly confident in attitude and rash in your actions, Sexual frustration. She maybe taking a wrong course or making a wrong approach altogether.

Female Page of Cups = WATER/WATER
Has difficulty in launching new projects, An emotionally understanding person, psychic abilities, passive, dreamy, has an elfin charm which can be mischievous or irresponsible, Risk taker, cunning and can think on her feet, business partner, she worries, she wants her cake and eat it too, she gets embarrassed easily. she has a happy go luck attitude towards love and intimacy. she enjoy the pleasure of the moment without making firm commitments. she is content and sexually satisfied. she is practical and has no romantic delusions.
Rx letter, message.

Female Page of Coins = WATER/EARTH
Patient, strong, determined, harvest, abundance, grace, regal. assistant, satisfactory, eagerness to help others. practical and common sense. Fruitfulness and plenty, when work has been successfully accomplished or problems solved, solace, compromise,
Rx: excessive pleasure, overabundance, superfluity, loss of prestige, delays lack of appreciation.


~~~ Female Knights = main Element = FIRE ~~~

Female Knight of Swords = FIRE/AIR
She is a Independent minded type of person who is cautious to a degree, self - sufficient and doesn't need to depend on others, She doesn't always follow through with plans or promises, She desires freedom - which can effect the relationship side - possibility of separation/loss, She is curious about other ways of life with the desire to roam, Everything she does is done in time, She find it difficult to relax even if she has earned it, She is content to spend time by herself and at times can be protective if her contentment and safety is threatened,She has a quite self - confidence and awareness of self worth, She is disciplined in the creative production or innovations, however with her living a creative life this can be a struggle to get things started, She reaches her goal - but it will take some time - her time, She lives modestly and takes pleasure in the simple things, She is peace and serenity with good esteem, She has it all, but she needs for balance.

Female Knight of Cups = FIRE/WATER
Ingenuity, growth, hard-worker, Patience, and trust. She cultivates with care, she is slow /or slow progress, she is resourceful. Joyful, desire and fulfillment, love and expression, proper balance, grace, poise and charisma, giving without thought of return, creative imagination and inspiration, clairvoyance, her energies pour out into a good cause or to a long range vision. Imagination, daydreams, unrealistic attitudes, wishful thinking, indulgence in sexual pleasures, she imagines exciting possibilities and internally rehearsing the plans to achieve them. Shyness, Modesty, might leave behind what formerly attracted, nurtured emotionally sustained, or fascinated her. Travel, desire, emotionally pulled, has a sense of longing, spiritual quest, love, romance, and artist fulfillment, warmhearted and intimate in her affections, Balance between the active ego and inactive aspects of her emotions, this balance guides the ego by her higher self.

Female Knight of Coins = FIRE/EARTH
She is a lover, mistress, wife, girlfriend who is adored, she has such drive and ambition that there is potential for risky behavior, putting her safety and security at risk, which can affect others. She desires change and seeks new opportunities and more responsibilities which also can affect others. She takes a more practical approach to whatever she does. She is more focus and determined that she can lose sight of her other needs or others or what's going on around her, she is not afraid of hard work, which makes her a hardworking person, self - reliant and self efficient. However she is there for you through thick and thin. She goes around and around in circles, she has her ups and downs, she works a little bit harder than others to make things happen, she maybe slower at getting the tasks or what have you done, she experiences disruption in her environment, relationships etc, she may even need to relearn something in life, one step forward two steps back, She is adventurous, sometime may show instability, negligence and carelessness which brings about changes in her life.
~~~~~~~

So just the Knight of Batons to add. Now Added

Female Knight of Staves = FIRE/FIRE

She has a lack of ambition, yet she works hard at what she does, she can be narrow minded or overly self-absorbed, all talk no action, she can manipulate others thought flattery, hypocrisy and intrigue to get ahead, She has a Rashness, unreliability, can be conceited, and be a user. She has a tendency to have dis - disillusionment about her self or others and how she perceives the world. However she is always looking for new possibilities, relationships, knowledge, approaches to old problems. She gets bored, restless and she gets caught up in dreams and fantasies that she rejects involvement in life. She gets physically drained, seeking distractions, too flighty or too industrious, takes herself too serious, even drains others of their energies.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bee :)

Added by Lady Iron Side
 

Lady Iron Side

Links to Pictures of the Male and Female Knights and Pages

Images found on Tarot.com of the Cary Yale Visconti Deck

http://www.tarot.com/tarot/decks/index.php?deckID=2

However the Female Knights and Pages are missing here.

Female Knight of Swords
Female Page of Swords http://www.tarot.com/tarot/decks/index.php?deckID=2&cardID=60

Male Knight of Swords http://www.tarot.com/tarot/decks/index.php?deckID=2&cardID=61
Male Page of Swords

Here in this link it shows The Female Page of Coins and the Female Knight of cups also (the Queen of Staves and the King of Swords)

http://img02.shop-pro.jp/PA01008/398/product/16960568_o2.jpg

Here is a link to the Female Knight of Staves/Batons

http://beinecke.library.yale.edu/digitallibrary/images/tarot.jpg

Here's a link to the Male Page of Batons/Staves
http://brbl-images.library.yale.edu/PATREQIMG/size4/D0391/1011911.jpg

Here is the Link to the Female Page of Batons/Staves
http://brbl-images.library.yale.edu/PATREQIMG/size4/D0391/1011912.jpg

Male Page of Cups
http://brbl-images.library.yale.edu/PATREQIMG/size4/D0392/1011928.jpg

Female Page of Cups
http://brbl-images.library.yale.edu/PATREQIMG/size4/D0392/1011929.jpg

Female Knight of Cups
http://www.learntarot.com/cycknf.gif

Male Knight of Cups
http://brbl-images.library.yale.edu/PATREQIMG/size4/D0392/1011927.jpg

Male Page of Coins
http://www.learntarot.com/cywkn.gif

Female page of Coins
http://brbl-images.library.yale.edu/PATREQIMG/size4/D0393/1011947.jpg

Male Knight of Coins
http://brbl-images.library.yale.edu/PATREQIMG/size4/D0393/1011945.jpg

Female Knight Of Coins
http://brbl-images.library.yale.edu/PATREQIMG/size4/D0393/1011946.jpg

I also found when searching on bing this came up sweet it will show you all the cards, including the Male and Female knights and pages. (a bit slow loading) click on the small link that says ( see all images )

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...94DAB50B49D66D2BDEF815439&first=1&FORM=IDFRIR

Here is a fast loading link again click on see all images
http://beinecke.library.yale.edu/digitallibrary/visconti.html

Large close ups that I found at the Museum, but there are only these, all other links there were broken for the other cards. Below are working links to the images, and they are of good quality.

http://trionfi.com/0/j/d/CaryYale/

Female Knight of Swords
http://highway55.library.yale.edu/PATREQIMG/size4/D0391/1011894.jpg

better image quality
Female Knight of Swords
http://brbl-images.library.yale.edu/PATREQIMG/size4/D0391/1011894.jpg

Female Page of Swords
http://highway55.library.yale.edu/PATREQIMG/size4/D0391/1011895.jpg

Female Knight of Batons/Staves/Wands
http://highway55.library.yale.edu/PATREQIMG/size4/D0391/1011910.jpg

Male Page of Batons/Staves/Wands
http://highway55.library.yale.edu/PATREQIMG/size4/D0391/1011911.jpg

Female Page of Batons/Staves/Wands
http://highway55.library.yale.edu/PATREQIMG/size4/D0391/1011912.jpg

I am still searching for links to the Female knights and Pages. when I find them I will post them.
 

Lady Iron Side

Gender of the Courts and Pip Cards - linking

Following Mel's Guideline as well as his table I was able to include the Female Knights and Pages

Melanchollic said:
Yes! :)

I work from the Powers to determine gender.


Dry is rigid, formative, inflexible - clearly male.

Cold is uniting, undiscriminating, indecisive, nurturing - female.

Moisture is conforming, flexible, passive, yielding - female.

Heat is separating, discriminating, and expansive - male.



In cases where there is both a female power, and a male power, the power of temperature will dominate:


Elemental Air - Hot + Moist - Heat dominates, making Air male.

Elemental Earth - Cold + Dry - Cold dominates, making Earth female.


Gender of the Courts and Pip Cards

Female (Qualities) Pip and court Cards

Cups

2 of Cups
5 of Cups
8 of Cups
Female Page of Cups
Female Knight of Cups
Queen of Cups

Coins

2 of Coins
3 of Coins
4 of Coins
5 of Coins
6 of Coins
8 of Coins
9 of Coins
10 of Coins
Female Page of Coins
Female Knight of Coins
Queen of Coins


Batons

2 of Batons
4 of Batons
6 of Batons
8 of Batons
10 of Batons
Female Page of Batons
Female Knight of Batons
Queen of Batons

Swords

Female Page of Swords
Female Knight of Swords


Male (Qualities) Pips and Court Cards

Swords

1 of Swords
3 of Swords
4 of Swords
5 of Swords
7 of Swords
9 of Swords
10 of Swords
King of Swords
Male Page of Swords
Male Knight of Swords

Batons

1 of Batons
7 of Batons
Male Page of Batons
Male Knight of Batons
King of Batons

Cups

1 of Cups
3 of Cups
5 of Cups
7 of Cups
9 of Cups
Male Page of Cups
Male Knight of Cups
King of Cups


BOTH ( UNISEX ) - Male and Female (Qualities) Pips and Court Cards

Cups

4 of Cups
10 of Cups
Male / Female Page of Cups


Coins

1 of Coins
7 of Coins
King of Coins

Batons

3 of Batons
5 of Batons
9 of Batons
Male / Female Knight of Batons

Swords

2 of Swords
6 of Swords
8 of Swords
Male / Female Knight of Swords
Queen of Swords
 

Bernice

Lady Iron Side said:
Here is a link of pictures I took of My Cary Yale Deck you can take look.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=2623640&postcount=20
Wonderful!

I'm not a lover of really ancient decks with splodges and worn bits etc. But this deck of yours is a GEM. Thank you so much for posting pics of it.

Have you had a go at drawing a couple of cards (hoping that one would be a female knight or Page), and seeing how your Elements & meanings work?

Bee :)
 

Lady Iron Side

Bernice said:
Wonderful!

I'm not a lover of really ancient decks with splodges and worn bits etc. But this deck of yours is a GEM. Thank you so much for posting pics of it.

Have you had a go at drawing a couple of cards (hoping that one would be a female knight or Page), and seeing how your Elements & meanings work?

Bee :)

Thank you Bee, now you see why I love this deck, and why I have a strong connection with it, now I just have to learn to read with it...lol I feel once I get Mel's Method under my belt I could create a modern version of the Cary Yale. What do you thinks? also I would be in need of Mel to help me with a book to go with the deck, containing his method (permission) or someone who would be interested in doing the book, cause I am dyslexic.

And yes I have been drawing up a tarot deck , here is a link that I posted here at At http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=152075 I haven't yet drawn up cards to depict both male /female cards with the element meanings, I've been so wrapped up learning Mel's methods, and figure out how to apply it to this deck that I haven drawn in a week. oops lol

mind you I'm really thinking of maybe combining the extra cards into it, not sure yet, take a look, you will see that I have already drawn up a female page of cups