Gonna learn Thoth if it kills me - Majors

[nicky]

Hierophant... First off I have to say this is much much better than the RWS versions I am used to. This guy seems approachable.. that is if you step carefully around the woman with the sword

Why nine nails?

 

[nicky]

Crowley says aspects of this card derive from the Pasiphae myth. I do recall that kinky lil bull lover but of course have questions. Lots of Crowley's work includes the sex magic element. Many myths tell of sex with animals (or Gods disguised thus) for creating a magical offspring. So is then Osiris a different face of the Minotaur or the Hierophant himself.

arghhhhhhh the more I read the more ignorant I become - perhaps I should stop studying (and why didn't I use that excuse in school)

anyone?

 

[Always Wondering]

I bees.

The bee is often used as as symbol for the soul in Orphic, hermetic, and "theurgic" writings. The bee gathers the memory of flowers, collecting secrets throughout her environment, and takes them back to her personal Heaven/Hive to be purified into golden sweetness. She is diligent and focused, and humble like any worthy seeker... ever-laboring and joyful in the discovery of treasure.

This is just. . . beautiful.

AW

I feel your pain Nicky, the more I know, the more I don't know, also. Wish I could answer your question.

 

[Scion]

Crowley says aspects of this card derive from the Pasiphae myth.

Well now...

Many bee echoes there, of all things. Pasiphae is a Cretan queen and mother of the Minotaur (and originally a moon goddess, natch, reflecting the Sun), Daedalus built a statue so she could mate with a bull and a labyrinth for her to contain their son, before he made his waxy wings. And Glaucus, her other son, was resurrected by honey. (c.f. Bulls and bees connection above). Crete... Bee goddess worship... Neith... Isis. All those horned gods and goddesses. Ariadne (a clew weaver like Neith) & Dionysos, too. Plus, the Eleusinian mysteries are where the card gets its title. The bull and the bee and the roots of the world as we know it. Not that I think every bit of this was going on for Crowley and Harris, but a lot was... and all of these things worth investigating at some point. But note that Crowley says its only the "sadistic aspect to this card" that's linked to Pasiphae.

One analysis of the labyrinth suggests it's based on the hive, which makes sense when you factor in Minoan bee worship and bull ceremonies. But most scholars argue that the Minotaur is actually an old solar figure. The Labyrinth is the dark maze of the sky and the Minotaur is the Sun at night running through the passages of the constellations in the shadows underearth. I wrote a long thing about this at some point which I haven't finished. More stuff for the Decans book, I s'pose. The name of the Minotaur was Asterion because he was "starlike," that is to say horned (like Moses!) with light. Pasiphae means "Shining widely." She was a daughter of Helios (cf Daedalus), a sister of Circe, and aunt to Medea... Magickal, dangerous solar figures all, and all associated with animals in unhealthy ways. The idea of divine children and the hieros gamos and the power/gnosis provided by mating with the gods is ancient and widespread. I can refer you to some great articles/books if you're interested, but only if you're curious. As you say, there are SO MANY things to explore, the best way is truly to walk into the maze as you Will.

Incidentally, this card is a GREAT example of why I think Angeles Arrien's book is literally evil and stupid to its mushy, pastel core. Wanless' and Wagner's books ditto. Not one of the above references mentioned. Zero scholarship, zero insight. And the references made are made incorrectly... Not one word of useful content, and load of mistaken half-assed, didn't-bother-looking-it-up goofs with no practical application. That'll be 19.95 please. They all faff on about "high priests" and duty and mysticism and the Virgin Mary because not only have they not digested Crowley, they haven't even bothered to pick up Robert Graves, for pete's sake. Duh. Undergraduate mythology 101. Kiss my Asterion! I can't stress enough how useful real investigation is when learning these cards, and how destructive and insidious half-assed new age horseshit can be to understanding them.

Something that might really help, Nicky, is a novel that you will love reading. The Marriage of Cadmus and Harmony by Roberto Calasso. The most beautiful, rich, compelling view of pagan antiquity. Life changing that book is... And one of my favorite lines "In any Cretan story, there's a bull at the beginning and a bull at the end..."And again elsewhere, "It began as all stories do, with a girl and a bull, the bull and the girl..."

If you start to get overwhelmed, just keep telling yourself that you aren't trying to reweave the entire tapestry, you're just picking at a thread and tracing it a while, and then another and tracing it awhile. Over months and years all these threads will connect in the most radiant ways. I promise. Think of Ariadne's thread... you're just trying to explore the Labyrinth with a silvery clew. The deck is a maze, but every maze has a solution. That rumbling you hear, that makes you nervous or confused? It isn't a monster trying to eat you, it's just the Sun underground, lost and trying to find His way out so He can rise.

Scion

 

[Grigori]

Why nine nails?

Vau is the nail, the letter assigned to the Heirophant. The pin that connects the human world (symbolised by the number 5 and the pentagram) to the divine (symbolised by the number 6 and the hexagram). That might have some bearing on the pasiphe myth also.

The nine I seem to remember someone saying it was related to yesod, the ninth sphere. Yesod is related to the Moon, which is exalted in Taurus, and seen in the hand of the woman in this card.

 

[cardlady22]

myths and legends; Emperor

I tend to approach these incredible stories as oral history and/or propaganda. Don't get me wrong, I adore mythology! One of the sites I read through mentioned the "lesson" being for her husband, the king. (aka Emperor?) It seems to fit on the surface- the king spurns the favor & attention bestowed on him by the gods. He has to be brought back to a "right position" by his wife, who happens to be the daughter of a god. For me, this ties in to tzaddi/tzaddik- righteous action/person. And when you "hook a fish" to reel it in, it fights. Some even play games with you!

Something about the structure & positioning of the Emperor's legs is pulling at me, but I can't figure it out.

I couldn't stop studying, even if I wanted to . . . it's hard-wired!
;-P

 

[Scion]

Something about the structure & positioning of the Emperor's legs is pulling at me, but I can't figure it out.

Alchemical symbol for sulfur. His entire body is the glyph.

 

[cardlady22]

Thanks, Scion! Any other cards with bodies making up glyphs I should watch for?

 

[Scion]

Several, but the obvious alchemical ones are Salt/Empress (as Abrac noted above), Mercury/Magus, and Sulfur/Emperor.

 

[Grigori]

And the Hanged Man, sulphur/emperor reversed.