"Great danger"

[Mariana]

but I don't go around telling them they are wicked

PS - I agree, Mariana - it is often fear based. But fear is not an excuse for unacceptable behaviour.

You're right. If they tell you you're evil, you have every right to stand up for yourself and demand respect. I was thinking of a more general situation, like in the first post where someone on a dating site deleted a pm without replying because they couldn't deal with an interest in tarot. In that case, I would think it's sad, but I would accept it. It's something entirely different if people insult you or condemn you.

 

[Mariana]

Before making any kind of judgement, I researched. And generally, I don't think it is my right to step into somebody else's spritual belief system and make a whole load of noise.

I agree with you.

And I also agree with the people who say that there's no point in trying to argue with these people.

It's just the reactions like 'I tell them I've put a hex on them' that worried me. Provoking antagonism only makes things worse. And I'm worried by earlier posts I've read on AT, where people seem to think that all christians are necessarily evil because some christians are afraid of tarot. Christians are not necessarily evil or even judgemental, just like people who do tarot are not necessarily evil or judgemental. My opinion is that categorising and judging people is always a lack of respect, whether it's about people who do tarot or about christians or about other groups of people. Every religion or even worldview has its fundamentalist individuals and I personally think that fundamentalism is always dangerous, no matter which worldview it is rooted in.

But yes, understanding and respect have to come from both sides, of course. I didn't mean to say that you have to put up with other people's lack of respect for your position, on the contrary. And I can understand if someone has been insulted by fundamentalist christians too much to have any patience left with people like them.

I just feel that if peace is what I believe in, I personally should try to understand where others are coming from first, before getting upset that they don't understand me, because my reaction is the only part I can change. (A very christian idea, I'm afraid)

But I'll leave it at this. I don't mean to upset anyone and I know this is a sensitive subject.

 

[Azarial]

Dear all, please be gentle with these people instead of condemning them. I grew up in a family like that and understand what they're coming from. They don't mean to judge you, most of the time, they're just afraid and may really be concerned for you, because they truly believe that evil forces use occult means to infiltrate in people's lives. I know it sounds naive, but then again, believing that tarot cards do reveal a truth, may sound just as naive. Really, most christians are just idealists who want to work towards a better world, just like most people here, even if they approach it differently.

Also, please be careful with generalising 'christian'. There are lots of types of christianity. Some very fundamentalist, some very open and loving and liberating. American christians are very different from European christians, etc etc.

But yes, it's very, very frustrating to get that reaction. It annoys me too, every time it happens. That's why I don't tell strangers about being interested in tarot. (Well, here in Europe most people won't object for religious reasons, but because they think it's a silly superstition that no intelligent person can take seriously.) There are even some friends I can't tell, not because they would judge me, but because they would be genuinely concerned and I don't want to upset them for nothing. I guess people's negative reaction is just something I try to anticipate and circumvent. Whenever I do get that reaction, I just reply that I think a fear-based approach to life is even more dangerous, because it tends to lead to black-and-white thinking and demonising the opposite side. As a general remark, so they can't feel attacked. That's all. And then I go about my business.

I completely agree with you Mariana. Some christians have these reactions because they are genuinely scared for thier loved ones because of what they've been taught and they don't really understand the workings of Tarot. I understand where they are coming from, I of course just don't agree with them.

Honestly it's not just Christianity, all religions tend to badly influence people into thinking that they are better than others because of thier belief system. The world would probably be a lot better place if no one had any religion of any kind, not just Christianity. I don't think anyone really uses it as the higher power intended it to be used. If it's not Christians condemning other religions or beliefs, it's other religions or people of different beliefs condemning the Christians. When in reality they are all the same, and no better than the other.

 

[Gazel]

Minefelt of Evil

In Denmark, and Europe, as Mariana wrote, people are generally very liberal concerning religious and belief matters. In Denmark the Asa-belief is an acknowledged religious community with the right to perform wedding ceremonies.

I do not make any secret of the fact that I'm interested in tarot, as I'm writing about it on my website.

I guess my friends finds me a bit "irrationel", but that's okay with me. That give me the opporunity to play the Fool.

I would be quite chocked, if any of them challenged my "hobby". I think that's how most of them see it.

But it just so happens that the alphabetized tag cloud on my site has Aleister Crowley appearing first. Since I write about the Thoth Tarot.

And so, the other day one of our neighbours, after looking at my website, wrote to my husband, that he hoped that I would avoid studies having anything to do with crowley, since thats a minefelt of evil.

Then he wrote something about a cat and a frog, being molested by Crowley. I don't know any of these stories. Think they're urban legends, and as much as I don't like the thought about animals being tortured, I don't really care. I'm not as such interested in Crowley himself, as the deck.

Anyway just wanted to tell, that I have in fact tried something like this, also. I must say, I did feel that my sphere was a bit intimidated.

But then again, I live in a free country, why should I even care about his oppinion.

Yours truly, Gazel.

 

[SphinYote]

As an aside, Crowley wrote about the cat in his autobiography.He saidthat he was a child at the time, and he basically wanted to test the theory that a cat had nine livs, so he tried killing it nine different ways at once.

As Crowley himself says elsewhere though, what he says may not be the truth, and he enjoyed shocking people. I think he also said he proclaimed himself a feminist for a while, not because he believed in it, but just to get a reaction out of people.

 

[Gazel]

As an aside, Crowley wrote about the cat in his autobiography.He saidthat he was a child at the time, and he basically wanted to test the theory that a cat had nine livs, so he tried killing it nine different ways at once.

In fact he acted like a scientist wanting to know the truth about a theory ;o)

As Crowley himself says elsewhere though, what he says may not be the truth, and he enjoyed shocking people. I think he also said he proclaimed himself a feminist for a while, not because he believed in it, but just to get a reaction out of people.

His autobiography may most likely be a self construction, why should it be the truth if the "lie" or myth is more appealing?

Gazel

 

[gregory]

Hey LB!!!

I am a Christian, card carrying Baptist, LOL Do I appear scary? ROFLMAO

YES *hides*

 

[Esther]

I think the saddest thing about people who sent hate messages (or even "concerned for your soul" messages) is that they end up perpetuating stereotypes about their entire faith, which is unfortunate. I really try not to be prejudiced, and I know that all Christians are not the same, but when, for example, a "Christian" finds my IM name and tries to harrass me into praying to be cured of my horrible bisexuality, it's kind of hard not to think about that the next few times you see someone call themselves Christian, even if you realize people are different. We're responsible for our own prejudices, but I also think that people should be aware of how their actions are percieved. I have nothing against people who calmly and respectfully mention their concerns or beliefs. If they do this, I will try to respond in a similarly calm and respectful manner, address any questions they've asked and tell them that I respectfully disagree with them. But I don't think there's any use in trying to deal with people who send over-zealous or hateful messages. It's better to just ignore it.

 

[Tarotphelia]

Dear all, please be gentle with these people instead of condemning them. I grew up in a family like that and understand what they're coming from. They don't mean to judge you, most of the time, they're just afraid and may really be concerned for you, because they truly believe that evil forces use occult means to infiltrate in people's lives. I know it sounds naive, but then again, believing that tarot cards do reveal a truth, may sound just as naive. Really, most christians are just idealists who want to work towards a better world, just like most people here, even if they approach it differently.

I am afraid that I will have to disagree with you Mariana . The more we put up with it , the more we make apologies for it , the more we encourage it to carry on. It's been going on for centuries . For some reason , people that will send messages like that feel empowered to do it , and they get their empowerment somewhere and they're not going to get any from me. It's not all about idealism , love , concern and fear . It's also about being rude , pushy , ignorant ,manipulative , closed minded , and even hysterical in some cases.

I too was born into a Christian family , so the culture is not completely alien to me. It would be nice if Christians themselves would take the initiative to set other Christians straight on the harm they are doing to others and their own religion with this kind of thing .

I am not going to threaten anybody with a hex , but I would certainly like to reply to them with a link to this book:

http://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great...5010434?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184896386&sr=8-1

(Not that it would do much good . )

 

[Gemini Rising]

I am afraid that I will have to disagree with you Mariana . The more we put up with it , the more we make apologies for it , the more we encourage it to carry on. It's been going on for centuries . For some reason , people that will send messages like that feel empowered to do it , and they get their empowerment somewhere and they're not going to get any from me. It's not all about idealism , love , concern and fear . It's also about being rude , pushy , ignorant ,manipulative , closed minded , and even hysterical in some cases.

I too was born into a Christian family , so the culture is not completely alien to me. It would be nice if Christians themselves would take the initiative to set other Christians straight on the harm they are doing to others and their own religion with this kind of thing .

I am not going to threaten anybody with a hex , but I would certainly like to reply to them with a link to this book:

http://www.amazon.com/God-Not-Great...5010434?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184896386&sr=8-1

(Not that it would do much good . )

There are some who do it out of concern for the person that they truly believe is going to Hell--and some that do like to manipulate. It isn't just black and white, there is a lot of gray, of course. They aren't ALL one thing or the other--each person is different. Some are concerned, some are manipulative, some are both.

Either way, it's annoying.

By the way, that book looks very interesting. I have firm beliefs, but I would pick that book up any day just to read a different perspective.