help positional meanings celtic cross feelings

[Fiery]

I'm not sure what section to post my question in but I'm looking for a little help with a couple of positional meanings in the celtic cross specific to "feelings" spreads.

If you ask how someone is feeling and you throw a celtic cross, what is position 1? I usually read it as their general overall feeling that grows into position 10 through the rest of the cards. But I'm wondering if you would read position 1 as my own feelings about the situation since I'm the querent?

Also, I cannot get clarity on position 9 hopes and fears. I struggle with what that card is supposed to mean no matter what the card, I just can't seem to understand how it relates to the rest of the reading. is it their hopes and fears or my own when reading for someone else's feelings?

I generally read ALL of the cards as their feelings if that's my question except position 8 would be their feelings ABOUT ME or the question at hand. Is this on track?

I'm very introspective (as most of you are) but find myself reading about how I made someone feel a lot and can't develop a spread that encompasses that very well so I use celtic cross as it's my standby for every question outside of a 3-card throw for just general info on a topic.

 

[tarotbear]

In my years of Celtic Cross perspectives, card #1 is the question that was asked; if not directly, when in some way related.

Ex: In the first, first, first public reading I ever did, card#1 indicated it was a work-related question, even though the Querent denied it. Turns out she was having an affair with a co-worker, *BING* - work related! LOL!

Card #9 - Hopes & Fears {If you can correllate 7 & 8 - which are usually more problematic - #9 should be easy (famous last words)!} Usually if positive it is considered a Hope; negative- a fear. However, what you hope for or hope not to have happen can be illusory - not necessarily literal. In a reading about a dying relationship the Hope card may bring up the 10 Cups - that is what the Querent wants to have happen even though the rest of the reading does not support it. In a positive work reading the Fears card may bring up the Five Swords - which may truely be a Fear but could be totally irrational.

However, to answer part of your question - if you are reading for someone else in absentia could these Hopes or Fears be yours and not theirs? Possibly - which is why I feel all readings should be one-on-one.

 

[rwcarter]

It would really help if you listed which positional meanings you're referring to as I know of more than 30 iterations of the Celtic Cross....

If you ask "How does Jane feel about John?" then position 1 would be the general state of how Jane feels about John. Position 9 would reflect Jane's hopes concerning her feelings toward John AND her fears about those feelings. (Note the AND in "Hopes and Fears".) Can't answer about position 8 as I'm not sure what that position means in the version you're using.

For the other part of your query, are you asking "How does X feel about me after what I did?" or "How does what I did make X feel?" I think the first question is more about the other person, while the second is more about you.

 

[Fiery]

tarot bear and rwcarter,
both of your answers were extremely helpful. thank you!

@tb: that's so interesting and actually pertains to a reading I did when I didn't understand position #1. that it applies to the overall question makes sense and it may not be either of their feelings even though that's the question... like HP could be feelings brought to the surface in a feelings reading of CC, but not necessarily belong to me or the other. I work in an extremely analytical field, things like tarot wouldn't be "accepted" so one on one isn't going to happen when I'm reading about feelings of people I interact with at work....

but I consider reading cards to be similar to reading body language... your bringing things to your conscious attention that your subconscious picked up on about someone else. It's not necessarily about "them" as much as what you picked up from them. I've never been able to validate the accuracy of the cards in terms of someone elses' feelings about something, but it helps me work out my own thoughts and issues with them. Just my view.

@rw: I like your interpretation of #1 that makes sense. In the version I use, #7 is self, #8 is as others see you/environmental influences.

 

[starrystarrynight]

I'd agree...there are tons of variations of the CC spread, but for the one I use, Card # 1 describes the current situation of the question being asked.

I never liked "Hopes and Fears," so personally, I call that slot: Final Gate or Obstacle [that needs to be breached, used, or surmounted in order to get to the Outcome--i.e. if it's a "positive" card, that is energy that will help the seeker to goal; if it is "negative," that may be a final obstacle that s/he'll need to get over to reach the outcome.]

But that's just my way...

Most important, I think, is that you assign your positional meanings and fully understand them before you even draw cards when you are using any kind of spread.

 

[tarotbear]

In the version I use, #7 is self, #8 is as others see you/environmental influences.

Similarly, in my version #7 is the Internal, or what you have Internalized/what you feel about the situation. #8 is the External, or what the others around you see. Remember, you can also be 'hiding' your true feelings from others, so the Internal can tell you one thing and what you allow the world to see Externally can be quite another!

It may also indicate that those around you have no clue as to what is going on inside you.

 

[Fiery]

man you guys are so incredibly helpful. Thank you! I like both of your positional meanings. As I reviewed this thread I was thinking I need to develop my own spread since I tend to read the same sorts of questions and just tweak the CC to the questions that I want answers to. Thank you so much!

@tb: I really like the internalize and you may be hiding from yourself. I will begin using that in my next spread. It really is a great way to look at that position.
@ssn: I don't like hopes and fears either. I will try using the "energy" interpretation and helpful or obstacle, that makes a lot more sense to me. Thank you. I've been reading for myself for 3 years and am completely comfortable with all other positions especially in other types of readings... but feelings... that's hard on CC, I need to take some time to develop my own spread that deals with that since I read about that most often. CC makes more sense in concrete "what will happen if" spreads for me. Thanks again. You guys are so helpful.

 

[rwcarter]

Also, I cannot get clarity on position 9 hopes and fears. I struggle with what that card is supposed to mean no matter what the card, I just can't seem to understand how it relates to the rest of the reading. is it their hopes and fears or my own when reading for someone else's feelings?

I generally read ALL of the cards as their feelings if that's my question except position 8 would be their feelings ABOUT ME or the question at hand. Is this on track?

@rw: I like your interpretation of #1 that makes sense. In the version I use, #7 is self, #8 is as others see you/environmental influences.

As I said earlier, depending on how you worded your question, I'd interpret some of the cards differently. If you asked, "How does X feel about me after what I did?", then it's their hopes and fears around what you did. But if you asked, "How does what I did make X feel?" then it's your hopes and fears around their reaction to what you did.

If position 8 is environmental influences/as others see you, then there's the same difference in interpretation based on the question. If it's "how X feels about me..." then position 8 is how others see X. But if the question was "how does what I did make X feel?" then position 8 is how others see you.

This is why the phrasing of the question that's asked is VERY important. In this case the question can be asked from the other person's perspective or from your perspective. And depending on which perspective is used, you have to be consistent in interpreting the positional meanings from the same perspective. (I can't help it. In high school I had two Queens and a Diva for English class, and I've been ruined ever since.... )

HTH,
Rodney

 

[rwcarter]

As I reviewed this thread I was thinking I need to develop my own spread since I tend to read the same sorts of questions and just tweak the CC to the questions that I want answers to.

If you need help developing your own spread, post here.

 

[angelika]

Hopes and fears is a really interesting position. Most of what we do is driven by fear and so getting to understand that can be crucial to understanding whatever is the question. It can stick out in a reading as the odd one out BUT can be the driving force. I read it as hope and/or fear depending on question and card. As starrystarrynight said it is an obstacle often, either way.

Position 1 as the first card is central to the question, it is what it is all about and again can be very revealing because it can be surprising and sometimes it can be so obvious that it makes me laugh that the cards are so right. The other card I look closely at is the unconscious force below (in my spread).

One way I have learned about this spread is to keep my own readings for myself in mind when I am in a situation (and realise it) - then analyse retrospectively how that felt for each card position etc to apply to others' readings. For me the H/F can be so important.