How important is Symbology in Tarot to you?

[nisaba]

Symbology is the STUDY of the nature of symbolism.

To me, symbolism is important in Tarot, but I don't need to take account of symbology, as the symbolism is quite enough to do a good reading.

 

[Richard]

Personally, I resent a particular symbology being forced on the reader by the images. I prefer the neutrality of the Marseille pips and the ambiguity of its majors and courts. I see no reason for anyone to be forcibly locked into a single specific interpretive system. Tarot is universal. It has now gotten to the point where non-RWS/GoldenDawn decks are often disdained by readers. It seems strange that there is so much neglect of the precursors of modern (Golden Dawn inspired) decks.

 

[Zephyros]

I think it is very important, and also not important at all. It's strange that this thread has come up, I've been thinking about this over the past few days.

On one hand there are those that would say that Tarot is essentially a Rorschach test of sorts; whatever you see in them then that's fine and there are no right or wrong answers. On the other hand there are those that would say that study of the symbolism is paramount to understanding the very nature of Tarot and that anything less is meaningless.

I guess I would fall somewhere in the middle. I do somewhat take issue with people saying "it's all intuition, it's all good" since in a sense that's cheating the deck maker of their intentions. Like books, Tarot cards are open to a variety of interpretations, but I think that those interpretations ought to be grounded in the source material itself, which can be varied. If anyone thinks that, oh, I don't know, The Catcher in the Rye is actually a book about Martians taking over the Earth, that's fine, but I expect them to show me, to prove it to me, text in hand. Just saying "it's my opinion and that's what my intuition tells me" isn't enough, and, again, cheats the author of his work.

So it is with Tarot cards. You can go as deep as you wish into the symbolism, but one of the things that differentiates Tarot from other divination systems is exactly that, the system. Some decks are more comfortably read from an intuitive standpoint alone, like the RWS (which is itself rife with symbolism) but others actually do need the legwork to really get all you can out of them.

On the other hand, it can be dangerous to get bogged down in to much symbolism. What Umberto Eco calls Salgarism, going off on tangents that have nothing to do with the issue at hand, makes for a dull reading. The person in front of me wants to know the answer to something, I won't spend three quarters of an hour explaining the origins of the Orphic Egg to them, obviously.

Ultimately, like I said before, in Tarot you can go as deep as you wish into the symbolism, but the deeper you go, your readings will, in my opinion, be that much better, since you have more "meat" to the card, more stories to tell about it. However I have received fabulous readings from people who never studied any of the symbolism at all, so maybe I'm wrong. That's just what works for me in reading, and I do think my study of symbolism has made me a better reader.

 

[Zephyros]

Personally, I resent a particular symbology being forced on the reader by the images. I prefer the neutrality of the Marseille pips and the ambiguity of its majors and courts. I see no reason for anyone to be forcibly locked into a single specific interpretive system. Tarot is universal. It has now gotten to the point where non-RWS/GoldenDawn decks are often disdained by readers. It seems strange that there is so much neglect of the precursors of modern (Golden Dawn inspired) decks.

I see your point in this, which is why I'm looking to expand myself into the Marseilles. But doesn't the Marseilles work by numerology, also a form of symbolism? Or by tacking on Hermetic Qabalah on it?

 

[Richard]

I see your point in this, which is why I'm looking to expand myself into the Marseilles. But doesn't the Marseilles work by numerology, also a form of symbolism? Or by tacking on Hermetic Qabalah on it?

Numerology, particularly Pythagorean, is often imposed on the Marseille. The Quabalah much less so. Personally, I simply correlate the pips cards with the first ten majors, and use a touch of numerology only if I need further elucidation by incorporating other majors. There certainly seems to be symbology in the Marseille, but it is flexible and not so much 'in your face' as in other decks. The same is true of the beautiful Italian and Swiiss decks based on the Marseille.

 

[fallingstarheart]

Funny how by studying the symbolism (eso and exoteric), the definition or better said, the meaning is further expanded... After all, when does intuition stops and limited biased beliefs (rationality) starts? hint: RVing.

I'd love to truly have a rorschachs interpretation ability a la Remote Viewing (I mean, literally), but I highly doubt it could be done with a non highly abstract deck, but what do I know? I'm just a fool starting the journey... Pun intended.

An unfinished example of how researching symbolism expands further biased beliefs (shameless self promotion ) which does gives more material to shape and mold to the specific reading.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=168253

A limited biased belief would be ONLY having the chritianity imposed idea of what the devil is, or what it represents, From experience I can say that my definition of it has been further expanded bc of stepping out of just one source of idea or belief (ex-catholic).

Intuition would be the strongest ingredient so it seems after all, so much that I'll start to write my journal with my left hand but when rationality strikes which is very quick, unless I could stay in an alpha brainwave state for longer, it will be with the acquired occult knowledge.

 

[fallingstarheart]

I've been meditating on what I've said... Maybe it's just a different representation of the same, some more detailed, conveying more information through eso/exoteric symbols but the same stuff altogether like previously stated by other people.

My newbie head is ready to explode... neeeed.... moooooreee..... deeeecks.... too stuuuudy....uuuughh.

 

[poopsie]

originally, I thought that Symbology didn't natter and it was just good enough to read the cards intuitively. When I started to read The Spiritual Tarot to understand the deeper meaning of RWS and Crowley for Thoth, I realized that it did matter to a great extent ... It gave me a handle. I agree with the other discussants that we need to look at the context and culture of the symbols used in the decks .. Something I realized now that I am studying the Etruscan Tarot and participating in the Klimt study groups. there are tons of literature on the topic ...


Oh, I also realized I needed to even research on the history and myths, legends and folklore of countries which the tarot deck themes hail from. Eventually, what is enriching is how one integrates the wisdom gained from sutydy together with the use of intuition and reflection.

 

[le_charior]

I guess I would fall somewhere in the middle. I do somewhat take issue with people saying "it's all intuition, it's all good" since in a sense that's cheating the deck maker of their intentions. Like books, Tarot cards are open to a variety of interpretations, but I think that those interpretations ought to be grounded in the source material itself, which can be varied. If anyone thinks that, oh, I don't know, The Catcher in the Rye is actually a book about Martians taking over the Earth, that's fine, but I expect them to show me, to prove it to me, text in hand. Just saying "it's my opinion and that's what my intuition tells me" isn't enough, and, again, cheats the author of his work.

this.

On the other hand, it can be dangerous to get bogged down in to much symbolism. What Umberto Eco calls Salgarism, going off on tangents that have nothing to do with the issue at hand, makes for a dull reading. The person in front of me wants to know the answer to something, I won't spend three quarters of an hour explaining the origins of the Orphic Egg to them, obviously.

and this. exactly my opinion.

would you please hurry getting a Marseille deck and join the TdM exchange! I want to see you read with one!

 

[espearite]

Well, I think my title sums the aim of this post up quite well. I've been doing a lot of reading since I've been here. I only use the Druidcraft, but just through reading general posts and readings, you see a lot of the symbology which is used in cards.

My problem is, I don't think there is any system which I would really completely understand the symbology of. I don't know enough about Druid/wiccan symbology for the druidcraft, I don't know enough about ancient egyptian symbology for the Ancient Egyptian Tarot. I don't know enough about Christian symbology to use RWS easily.

How important is the symbology in the cards to your understanding of them? Do you really need to understand the symbols to connect to your cards? Did you understand the symbols when you first looked at the cards, or was it a matter of a lot of research for you?

It takes me forever to learn what little things mean, so I'm worried I'm never really going to understand any deck well.

When I first started out with the tarot, I bought a small book called, "Pocket Guide to the Tarot" by Alan Oken. I really had no idea what I was buying at the time, but this was my go-to book offline, and it fully enlightened me about some of the symbolism in the cards, especially the major arcana which no other source (online specifically) quite covered in depth. Most of the books you see out today (not naming any names) only give readers surface meanings of a card and not so much an in-depth explanation of the why behind the symbolism of the tarot (RW). Personally I find it sad because less-informed readers are stuck with mundane, superficial views of the cards rather than a deeper, spiritual background of them. I think the less you know about your cards, the less of a connection there is with them. The same thing applies if you only have a one-sided understanding of them (usually surface meaning). Still, some readers look to separate decks that cover only, IMO, secondary symbolism (i.e, wicca, egyptology, etc.).

I'm not saying these aren't good decks to learn from, but if you're looking for a better understanding of the cards, RW is a good place to start IMHO with symbolism. A lot of decks are based on the imagery of these cards, or at least echo the symbolism to some extent. There is a lot more material specifically written on this deck as well. Although I am more of an abstract reader, the symbolism of the cards does factor into my *further* understanding of them - and maybe in more spiritual ways than mundane. I not only use intuition to understand a card, but I balance out that understanding with a good read of the symbolism. For example, intuition can tell you so much about The Star card, but what does the nakedness of the woman mean? I really don't think it depends on how deep you want to go with a reading because the symbolism of the cards need not have a solely spiritual meaning. You can translate the spiritual application into a more practical, everyday context as well.