Is it bad to show scans of complete decks? split from Side by side card comparisons

cirom

I have to agree with Riccardo.

I don't deny that sites showing the whole set of cards probably does generate some additional sales. I also appreciate that some people may well want to see the entire set of images before deciding wether you want it or not. But surely many purchaces require some degree of unknown. Hence the proverb if you can't tell a book by its cover. We go to movies or not based on just a trailer, and may be disappointed with the rest, but there you are. Or you can pay nothing and see a pirated version of the whole thing. There is an anology there I think which applies to many products or services we buy without a full test drive.

But once again being aware of the need or at least interest of some in seeing the full set of images beforehand, In my case I have always offered some means of allowing people to do so. But that is my decision. I balance the benefits of this with the risks. I also takes some precautions. I limit the size and quality, or I present it in a slide show form that is more of a hassle for people to download.

I accept that on most occasions these kind of sites don't even consider that their actions may be wrong, on the contrary they probably feel they are offering a service to the community and the deck producers by providing free publicity, and so I don't do much about it unless they are charging a fee of some kind. I also have no problem with someone going to all the trouble of downloading, printing glueing and trimming their own in order to avoid buying the real thing, because quite frankly its probably more expensive than buying one.

But there's no denying that it irks me when someone post the full deck on line with close ups at reasonable quality, especially before the deck has even been released publicly. As that in the wrong hands can and has been a risk. A risk that no-one else is morally let alone legally entitled to do. Not even asking is also disrespectful to the people whose very work they have decided to share regardless of the consequences.

A final point. In the past I earned a fee on a few occasions in exchange for allowing a web site to incorporate the use of a deck. As you might imaging, due to the action of the sites such as those mentioned in this thread, that income source is now pretty much a non event.
 

214red

i agree that people should ask permission before they borrow the images of the decks, borrowing something without asking is stealing.

However there are a number of decks i wont buy as i havent seen all the images, like the TOD as i havent seen a full copy either in a shop or online. i need to like 90+% of the deck to like it, and seeing only a few pics means i cant asses if i like the deck or not.

I dont illegally download music as its not fair to the artist, and the same applies here, i would reproduce a deck...i would buy one.
 

faunabay

I guess I'm one of the few that don't go look at the whole deck before buying. I do like a bit of mystery. :p Now I will go to these sites sometimes but never look at the whole deck. I might check out 10 or so cards then make my decision.

Plus looking at the scans on the internet is nothing like holding it in your hands. That's my big test. How do I get on with it physically? Not how does it appeal to me visually? I can't tell you how many times I've looked at a deck online and just fallen in love, but once I got it home.....nothing. Or seeing it online did nothing for me only to see it in person and fall in love!!

I miss the "olden times" :laugh: when the metaphysical shops had a tester deck you could flip through before buying. That's also why I REALLY enjoyed going to Tarot Garden last month. I could flip though decks to my hearts content!!! :heart:

I do think these sites provide a service to us as consumers. But when you get right down to it do think it's piracy for the artists.
 

papercut

cirom said:
But surely many purchaces require some degree of unknown. Hence the proverb if you can't tell a book by its cover. We go to movies or not based on just a trailer, and may be disappointed with the rest, but there you are. Or you can pay nothing and see a pirated version of the whole thing. There is an anology there I think which applies to many products or services we buy without a full test drive.
Click to expand...

I dont think you can compare books / movies with tarot.

With a book or a movie you can dislike some of the characters or some of the narrative / stylistic choices, but still thoroughly enjoy it. Yet with tarot a single off card can and sometimes does ruin a deck for people.

The thing about tarot is that it uses a pre-conceived system. People buy a deck with certain personal ideas about the 78 cards, and if a deck doesn't complement them, it may be unusable for that person.

The other difference - people can see a movie, and hate it, and then never think about it again. But with a deck most people probably want to use those cards over and over for a long time. Buying a tarot deck is a much bigger personal and emotional investment than going to the movies or buying a book.

I will *never* buy another deck without having seen all the cards, either online or through other means. Actually just tonight I discovered a Lo Scarebeo deck I now want to purchase after seeing it on the German site.

I also dont think that posting the scans online is piracy. After all, it isn't giving away the product, the product is the usable physical deck of cards. If someone was to download the scans and print their own bootleg copy, then *that* would be piracy. I don't doubt that this sometimes happens, but I think with the cost and time involved, it's really quite marginal.
 

Bernice

There are certain cards that I like to see before I'll buy, around 15.

I used to check out a deck at the online shops where there are maybe only 3 - 6 cards shown (if that). I wouldn't do that now - I've got several unwanted decks tucked away. Waste of time & money. I don't pay too much atention to the selling 'blurb' either now.

I need to see cards before I buy.

Bee :)
 

Shade

Fair disclosure - I am regarded as fanatical about intellectual property rights and I am really really upset by movie and music downloads. I'll keep it to "I" messages

When I saw the site from the other thread I thought "Oooh this is handy" but then I noticed lots of gaps in the cards depicted and thought "I bet those are the cards that were blocked when publishers got word."

If the question is "Should a site show all the cards of someone else's deck without permission?" then my (personal) answer is no they should not. The images belong to the copyright owner and the people who buy the decks. Posting a handful of cards doesn't seem especially harmful to me (somewhat akin to the 15 second sound clip you can hear before buying a CD on amazon) but I feel showing the entire deck goes a bit far.

Are there ways to show entire decks in a way that promotes their purchase? I feel that is up to the marketing team to decide not a rogue with a scanner ;-) Something that might have gone towards protecting the deck publishers would be putting some mark on the scans so they could not be reproduced or keeping the scans small... but no if you click you get a large lovely full scan of the image (sans borders). What I found really interesting is that if you click on an image (the Dante Hanged Man is what I chose) you get a line on the side about how copyright is owned by Lo Scarabeo... but they are breaking that copyright n showing you the image.
 

Sinduction

I think of seeing images before I buy the same as hearing a song on the radio before I buy it.

I do agree that permission should be sought and also given. Put one of those watermark thingys on it.

I also will not buy a deck if I cannot see all the images. There are so many decks that are misrepresented for sales that I don't even bother with what the pitch or reviews are.

I have to say that I applaud artists such as Ciro and Em that allow us to not only see their decks but also participate in the creation of them. Their decks specifically are so dear to my heart, I feel like they are part of me. I know I have enabled many people to buy the Transparent through my blog, where I did ask and was granted permission to post the images. I feel great that I can not only share my joy of the deck, which I watched through its creation, but also let others see just how amazing the deck is.

I've bought so many decks that turned out to be complete rubbish that I have to wonder why the publisher or artist doesn't want to let us see all the cards. If it's a copyright issue, put a watermark on it and do it at a lower resolution. But I feel like something is being hidden from me if I only get a few cards, or even worse, a pick of the box with the cards spread out in a way that you can't see anything at all.
 

cirom

papercut said:
I also dont think that posting the scans online is piracy. After all, it isn't giving away the product, the product is the usable physical deck of cards. .
Click to expand...

Well I disagree, they may not be giving the product away in its physical sense, but there is a whole industry of on line readings and usage that is doing quite nicely without a physical deck. So the physicality isn't the only criteria in today's world by which a deck is valued.

As I pointed out in my previous post, there was a time where I and others may have received a payment for the use of and displaying of our work. Now people simply do so without asking. They may not have stolen something from me in a physical sense, nevertheless they have through their actions diminished the commercial value of my work.

One may dismiss that as being a triviality or worth it because of the addition "free" advertising, but I think thats for the copyright owner to decide.

As for being able to see all the images before buying. Yes I get it... from the beginning I got it and was probably one of the first to show a whole deck on my site. But I also want to keep something back as well, so I do limit the size to low resolution or slide show, because I like to keep some surprises, for people to discover when they receive the deck (like leaving something for Christmas morning) these surprises are just little subtleties and details that probably get overlooked on line.
 
Opinions on channelled readings? Tarot tattoo?