Justice VS Judgment

[babyJo]

I lay out all the major arcana cards.. just to see the whole picture and the flow of the story. Found that..there is those two cards I have problems with (Justice VS Judgment)

JUSTICE

in short: Cause and Effect. You get what you deserve, good or bad... what you are getting is result from what you have done in the past. In the RW card, it gives you a feeling of a count room, such as legal case.

JUDGMENT
From RW, a scene from the tradition Christian Judgment day. So again you are now being judge by your past...but also it's time of rebirth regardless of your pass. With sense of forgiveness.

NOW, the question is.... what is the main difference between the two cards. Lets just take the one in the RW deck for example. Any comment?

Blessing
~Jo

 

[Knight of Wands]

Hey,

I have trouble with Justice too. Like you said, it can mean getting what you deserve, even though that might not be what you want. It can also indicate a need to be truthful and fair and be unbiased when making desicions.

I see Judgement as a time of awakening, if you've been stuck in a rut or 'dead' to the world, Judgement can mean hearing the trumpets call and rising to your life. Wether that be facing your responsibilites, or just having more fun. It can mean seeing the world with new eyes and seeing the beauty in things you took for granted earlier.

Just my two cents,

KoW

 

[Talisman]

And sometimes . . .

. . . unbiased thinking. Balanced reasoning . . .

Talisman

 

[doreen]

in a nutshell

Judgement;
Cleansing, fresh start, finally seeing the light and moving on hopeful for a better future. AWakening and rebirth, another chance.
Justice;
legalities, legal papers etc, civil marriage, just outcome,
You reap what you sow, justice seen to be one. Fairmindedness.

Doreen

 

[full deck]

"No RW for you Potter . . ."

I'm looking at the Hadar. Both symbols have something to do with judgement but are different. First Justice carries a scale and a sword. This speaks of discernment and judgement but is very much rooted in a personified symbol that needs no intervention from the divine, rather it embodies this quality of insight. One could note the sword, which has been used to denote the rational mind at work. It is double-edged and destroys as well as preserves. The sword is also held or possessed by one. Justice is the combination of intellect, wisdom and the process of determining what a thing is or is not. One could say justice is found in what one does, not in what happens to one.

L'judgement is more of having the "scales fall from one's eyes", of having a revelation which rips aside all illusion and allows one to proceed as if born anew, with fresh eyes and thoughts. Judgement is a process that happens to one and not so much the personification of such. They are similar yet are different in terms of process and perspective. These are just two ways of talking about such.

"Thirteen" could better talk about how people could personify such qualities . . . perhaps we will get lucky . . .

 

[tarotbear]

They both start with 'J' ????

This is an excerpt from my second tarot book (awaiting illustrations); I hope this helps, or at least fuels some debate! LOL!

************

Justice card

Without a blindfold, the all-seeing Justice sits with scales and sword in hand. What does 'justice' mean, anyway? The definition varies from simple 'honesty' to 'vindictive retribution' - YIKES! Where do you fit into this vast desert between two poles? [Slight detour: there is a difference between #11 Justice and #20 Judgement. Justice has to do with fairness, neutrality, and tolerance; Judgement has to do with decision, obligation, and resolution.] The gut reaction to this card is the legal system or a court judge handing out a verdict, or at the very least the Querent's lawyers. So to some degree Justice and Judgement overlap and the upright appearance of this card traditionally 'indicates' a judgement in the Querent's favor.
The Justice card is about compassion and exercising compassion. In the callous world of the twenty-first century, the reporters doing the 'story' bring world events into our living rooms, receiving instantaneous analysis, commentary, and judgement. You set yourself up as judge and jury, make a decision, and go on to the next story. This attitude of judgement carries through into everything you do; you apply it to the people on the bus, your coworkers, and your family. Soon, as actor Robert Blake used to do in the talk show days of his early celebrity, you pass judgements and talk like your opinion is everyone's opinion and because you said it, it has to be right. ("Dat's de name of dat tune.")
But this card is NOT about judging. It is about trying to understand the needs, understanding the why and the 'how comes?' Sometimes the results are not pleasant; sometimes there is no correction for the situation. Sometimes NOT judging is the answer.

****************
Judgement Card:


When I started writing this book I knew the Judgement and Justice cards would present a problem since in most people's minds they overlap or are interchangeable. They both also carry some distinctive images, and Judgement with the Archangel Gabriel blowing his trumpet to raise the dead for their final judgement does not set well with many people. This judgement finds you lacking and brings damnation. How does this image come between the wonderful Sun card and the even better World card? Why isn't this card farther back in 'the Fool goes to hell' section? If you remember correctly, in the midst of those hellish cards the Temperance angel appears to say that choices must be made. Here in the midst of the final cards of the Major Arcana another angel appears to ask if those choices were for the best. Justice is the quality for being correct or right; Judgement is the process to ascertain truth from agreement and disagreement.
Traditionally, the Judgement card is about a sense of renewing or renewal. This renewal comes from a period of reflections on the past that brings forth an awakening. Perhaps you will receive an opportunity for reassessing what has gone before, or are about to enter a time of testing. One has to discern if this judgement is external - received from others - such as a job review or a legal judgement, or if this judgement is internal - how the Querents evaluate themselves. But where does all this 'determination, decision, resolution, and outcome' (Webster's Universal Dictionary) lead us or leave us?
Forget about the dead rising from their coffins floating on the sea of the subconscious. {How many naked people get buried at sea, anyway?} Forget about destiny. Gabriel's blasts are to awaken Man from his limitations, to show you that limitation is holding you back or making you 'dead.' This card is about learning about uniqueness - learning what makes you unique, developing ways to express that uniqueness, and learning to accept that uniqueness in others. Yes, Mr. "I went to Berkeley to study the effects of gamma rays on man-in-the-moon marigolds", your father is still a Hassidic Jew wondering 'where you went wrong.' You are worlds apart in theologies - but Father's Day is still coming; you can still send him a card. He's still going to ask when you're going to get a haircut and when you are going to get married. Accept that as his uniqueness.
A tolerance of others is part of judgement. By definition, unique means there are no duplications or imitations, so it goes to say that everyone's uniqueness may not necessarily be simpatico with yours. Look at your personal history; everyone's life has a few 'I can't believe I did THAT!' statements in it. These actions moved you in out of harmony with others, possibly even alienated a few, too. You discovered that even if you botched a few things up royally that a certain few friends were still there, even if they thought you were a complete jerk at the time. Unless you live in a plastic bubble you are going to find people who do things that revolt you, eat foods that would make you vomit, have ideas that are strictly Martian, or otherwise have lifestyles that are incompatible with yours. Gabriel's blast tells you to broaden your viewpoint. It's like the 'Serenity Prayer' that states: God, grant me the patience to change the things I can change, accept the things I cannot change, and the wisdom to know the difference.

 

[star-lover]

i think judgement is a spiritual clean slate
when you been worrying about stuff it comes along and says your clean go ahead dont worry

 

[Thirteen]

Objective vs. Subjective

"Thirteen" could better talk about how people could personify such qualities . . . perhaps we will get lucky . . .

*Blush!* Very kind of you, FD. Okay, let's see what I can manage...

Justice: As mentioned, that sword and those scales are pretty important. Think of Justice as mom trying not to play favorites. She's got two kids and she has to split a cupcake between them. So she cuts it as evenly as she can, weighs it on the scales to make sure they get exactly the same. They get the same lunch, the same toys, the same punishments for the same infractions--no better, no worse.

Justice might not always *feel* fair, but it always is fair. It is objective "air," cold and reasoned, using intellect and sword and scale to balance things. So even if you feel you *deserve* more cupcake than your sibling...sorry, it's going to be cut exactly in half and both sides will weigh the same. Justice is the middle road, logical, cool, fair, balanced. It is the law--the cupcake gets shared! There is no appeal.

Judgement: even though it has the same root word (Judge) in it, this is a very different card. Justice come from the outside...Judgement comes from the inside (or, if you like, from above, from God). Judgement is looking at yourself, your whole life, or an important part of your life, and making a judgement about it.

It is subjective fire, all passion, philosophy, religion. There's nothing cool or distant about it. It's very personal. How you see yourself, not how others see you.

One of the best descriptions I've read of Judgement is that it can indicate time spent in the hospital, recovering from something serious. If you think about Judgement like that, it becomes more clear. When you get that sick or hurt, you think about your life, what you'll do different when you're well and healthy again. You think about time/energy wasted, about what wrongs you've done others--or wrongs that have been done to you, one's you've never come to terms with, or ones that have consumed your time and energy. Your *reassess* your life.

That's Judgement. A moment of ephiphany when you say, "It's time to let go of my guilt/resentment/anger/hate..." or "It's time to move on," or "it's time to ask forgiveness/be a different person," or "it's time to start living/change jobs/take a chance."

The Judgement card is Mr. Scrooge on Christmas Eve. He gets a good look at himself...passes judgement and decides it's time to change.

You are the judge in Judgement. And what you are judging is yourself. Not harshly, just realistically. You decide, if you will, that it's time to stop resenting your sibling for getting half that cupcake. You decide that from now on, your sib can have the whole cupcake. It's not worth fighting over, it never was. What really matters is to be on better terms with your sib, not being angry over percieved or real wrongs and unfairness.

How's that?

 

[Little Baron]

How's that?

Perfect. Thank you. You always describe things so well and create great scenes in my mind to help illustrate a point.

Best, LB

 

[full deck]

Well done "Thirteen". The difference in perspective between the two was one thing I was trying to nail down.

Thanks