Mixing Together Esoteric Traditions

[Richard]

It may be true that all roads lead to Rome, but they are different roads. Some Tarot decks have both Astrological and Runic indications on the cards. A few decks even stir up a veritable witch's brew of Qabalah, Runes, I Ching, Ancient Egyptian, and Native American symbology. I think this does violence to the dignity and validity of the different paths to enlightenment.

Any thoughts?

 

[Alamaris]

I agree, with some addendums.

Okay, let's say Card Deck ABC has thirty cards in it. And let's say Interesting Rune Set XYZ has thirty stones in it. Both these sets are from fairly old traditions, and you can easily match up the thirty runes with the thirty cards without reaching or changing the meanings. They seem to mesh. This is something I don't have an issue with, even if the cards and runes are from vastly different cultures or worldviews -- there is Something Deeper going on here if they line up without effort, and combining them inflicts no indignity on either system, if done without rudeness.

But when different systems are mashed together uncomfortably, with seemingly little reason? No. It bothers me. It's like someone threw a party and invited people who don't speak the same language and don't have anything in common -- and if they did, they can't communicate anyway, so it's just a mess. Mashing different systems into tarot seems to say to me, "This deck isn't special or well-thought out enough on its own, so we barfed some unrelated yet popular system onto it so that you might feel it was worth your money." Sure, a lot of thought might have gone into combining those two unrelated systems, but what's the point? Adding an extra degree of unnecessary complexity, in my opinion. The majors have I Ching hexagrams on them, so it's a Serious Study Deck, right?

This isn't to say that the decks which do this can't be well-loved and used very well. Zan_Chan's study of the Haindl a while back proved that much. But I feel that combining systems, unless they mesh in a smooth and uncanny way, is undignified and messy. If I want to read runes, I'm going to darn well read runes! Not tarot cards with runes on them.

I think it's the reverse of cat-vaccuuming, as a metaphor -- cat-vaccuuming is wasting time, but this is more like dressing up a cat. It's pointless, potentially hurtful, and makes everyone involved look a little silly.

 

[GoldenWolf]

I think that there are different systems of divination just as there are different belief systems. Some approaches just gel and work better for some of us than others. That is good because we are all different and this gives us choices.

What is not so good is trying to lump it all together. The attempt at a cohesive divination system/religion/world view often ends up as a unidentifiable mish-mash. Trying to match them up often seems strained as Almaris noted. It works better with decks like the Haindl where a lot of thought and work went in the deck. Unfortunately, there are a lot of decks being published now that offer little more than pretty art or a flavor-of-the-month concept. This is where things can get messy and incoherent especially if all these symbols get jammed into the cards. When in doubt, I wish deck authors would provide us charts in a companion book. Let us decide if the system really works through study and practice. If it does, then we can just learn it and store it in our heads. Please don't shove it down our throats and clutter up a relatively small space by putting it on the card.

I also agree that different systems of divination have their own strong points. I am more interested in runes as they were traditionally used (being cast) and not having Tarot techniques such as spreads with specific positional meanings used with them a la Ralph Blum. A lot of this "everything but the kitchen sink" approach proliferated at the height of New Age trendiness as I recall.

 

[Richard]

Good points, Alamaris. The Rider-Waite deck is based on the Golden Dawn's and Eliphas Levi's observation that there are 22 Majors and 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet. That seems to work, in spite of the disparity between traditions. However, some of the more recent decks force the issue of consonance between unrelated traditions, and that kind of rubs my fur the wrong way.

 

[Richard]

.....I also agree that different systems of divination have their own strong points. I am more interested in runes as they were traditionally used (being cast) and not having Tarot techniques such as spreads with specific positional meanings used with them a la Ralph Blum. A lot of this "everything but the kitchen sink" approach proliferated at the height of New Age trendiness as I recall.

Yes, the New Age movement conflated various traditions. I use I Ching and Runes more or less as they seem to have been originally intended. Tarot is a relative newcomer to the divination scene, but it has its own unique tradition.

 

[Metafizzypop]

It may be true that all roads lead to Rome, but they are different roads. Some Tarot decks have both Astrological and Runic indications on the cards. A few decks even stir up a veritable witch's brew of Qabalah, Runes, I Ching, Ancient Egyptian, and Native American symbology. I think this does violence to the dignity and validity of the different paths to enlightenment.

Any thoughts?

Yeah, I think I agree, that's my thoughts.

If it does violence to the dignity and validity of the different paths to enlightenment, I'd say that it's tarot that gets the bulk of the attack. I don't see tarot-related symbols put on Rune stones. Or on I Ching cards. And I don't see I Ching symbols on Runes. And if the Hebrew letters are 22 in number, does that mean that in Hebrew school they teach you tarot? If the connections between traditions were legitimate, it should work both ways. But it doesn't. It's tarot that gets loaded down with esoteric weight from other traditions, but those other tradtions don't have tarot imposed upon them.

Some tarot creators who use this symbology on their decks don't even know their own topic well. I have a deck (which shall remain unnamed because I like it) that has astrological symbols on every card. And every time the Libra symbol appears, it's upside-down. It seems to me that if a person knows their stuff, they wouldn't make a mistake like that.

I think that some tarot creators add these symbols because they think it will give their deck the appearance of being deeper, more profound, or more powerful. But to me they're just posers.

 

[Le Fanu]

I think the Esoteric industry as a whole has pretty much dumbed down everything and made it all bite-sized and palatable and interchangeable anyway.

The idea is I suppose that we're all shamanic tarot readers who toss runes and I-Ching and live in houses organised according to the rules of Feng Shui. Then we'll be pretty much tempted to buy anything that's cast in our way.

I tend to think that any add-ons to tarot are superficial anyway, but then maybe I'm cynical. Where is the Tarot deck that uses the runes well? I wouldn't know anyway as I don't really understand runes. I tend to think of I-Ching hexagrams and Runes on cards as decorative. I don't mind them being there but I don't trust them so they don't affect my intrepretation. I love I-Ching but I'd rather use it as a distinct oracle anyway and pore over the actual text than have it bent into tarot

 

[vee]

Eh, Tarot's history in the 18th and 19th centuries is a history of appropriation and superficial add ons. I get that Kabbalah and astrology and Egyptian mythologies were important to the Golden Dawn/the French Masons and will concede that they (mostly) added them thoughtfully, but it's the same deal, imo. So unless you're working strictly with TdM or Visconti or whatnot, you're already dealing with that.

I agree with your conclusion, but spirituality "mixing" is just a part of New Age/Occultism, for better or for worse. All we can do is be mindful and respectful within that, I think.

 

[Richard]

.....I agree with your conclusion, but spirituality "mixing" is just a part of New Age/Occultism, for better or for worse. All we can do is be mindful and respectful within that, I think.

I'm not sure I'm so respectful of New Age, but I appreciate your viewpoint.

......I love I-Ching but I'd rather use it as a distinct oracle anyway and pore over the actual text than have it bent into tarot

Me too.

......I think that some tarot creators add these symbols because they think it will give their deck the appearance of being deeper, more profound, or more powerful. But to me they're just posers.

Good point!

 

[GoldenWolf]

I tend to think that any add-ons to tarot are superficial anyway, but then maybe I'm cynical. Where is the Tarot deck that uses the runes well? I wouldn't know anyway as I don't really understand runes. I tend to think of I-Ching hexagrams and Runes on cards as decorative. I don't mind them being there but I don't trust them so they don't affect my intrepretation. I love I-Ching but I'd rather use it as a distinct oracle anyway and pore over the actual text than have it bent into tarot

Well, Crowley got the association between the I Ching and Tarot going. I can't find any mention of it in the Golden Dawn material. However, he simply mentions the correlations in the Book of Thoth. He did not put them on the cards themselves. So you can read the B of T and decide if it works or not from your point of view. If not, you can ignore it. Unfortunately, it gave modern deck creators the idea to plaster them on the cards.