More Camoin Questions

[MaureenH]

Since I don’t know anyone who knows Marseille Tarot, I searched around and landed upon P. Camoin’s website. While I don’t have a Camoin deck at this point, I like the idea of following the gazes and finding solutions. I then found this forum and another on Tarotpedia to see if I could get some practical help.

I have been looking at his cards to compare them to my Universal deck, and have printed out his keywords that I tend to read along with the various meanings in Huson’s Mystical Origins. And, of course, just what enters my mind when I look at the cards. I have a few concerns that I’ll put all in this one post in an effort not to sprawl too much.

1. Placement. I’ll put a few of my first attempts on here and I would be appreciate if someone familiar with the method would correct me, if necessary. I don’t expect anyone to take the time to interpret, but feel free. I’ll include the question just in case anyone does. I’ve already semi-processed these on a different forum by myself, but I’m not even sure I arranged the cards correctly. I’ve put the original 3 cards of each spread in parenthesis with the various gaze and solutions around them.

A. Why am I drawn to Tarot?

………………………… Empress………Hanged Man……..Judgment

Lover…….(Emperor……..XIII Rev……..Chariot Rev)……….Wheel of F Rev


B. What is my path?

Pope……………………….Temperance…...Strength………..Judgment

(Hanged Man Rev………….Hermit Rev…...XIII Rev)……Emperor Rev.

I forgot to put a regard card for the Emperor. I’m wondering if when that happens, and if it seems important enough to me, if I can do another spread after the fact to ask for clarification on a previous spread. Or is that something I can pull one card for randomly?


C. Should I ask my questions on Aeclectic Tarot Forum?

………HofG….Stars….(High Priestess…….Strength…...Sun)

Lover…Hermit


2. As I read the various meanings of cards, particularly Camoin’s since I'm trying to use his method, I’m wondering whether unless I prescribe to a particular author’s belief system that his/her meanings will not ever sync with me. Or should I be editing author out and just let the keywords process and speak to me in my own way? That seems a bit off. I read the religions section on his site where he speaks of the various Egyptian, Christian, etc. influences, but I still don’t know what his big picture is or if it even matters.

Perhaps I’m conditioned to expect that I’m being proselytized even when not. I’m torn between wanting to be challenged and not immediately rejecting everything I don’t agree with, and not wanting to set myself up to be told I’m rejecting enlightenment on a regular basis if I really do not feel receptive to certain ideas. What does he mean by House of God and Word of God, Enlightenment? Are those within a Christian context? (Not trying to offend anyone, but can’t think of another way to ask that other than just to ask.) How have others handled this as I’m sure it’s not unique to me.

3. If a card keeps reappearing in questions that have a common bond or theme, does it carry inflections from a previous reading or should I not cultivate assigning certain cards to particular individuals like that?

Thanks to anyone who can address any of those.

 

[Paul]

Due to synchronicities of knowing European friends who have thoroughly mastered the Camoin Method, I have been gifted this Method.

As you can peruse in other AT threads, I elucidate the Method up to the point revealed by Camoin on his website.

I have never found Camoin's meanings constricting, but in perfect harmony with other TdM scholars. Keep in mind that the "keywords" are half the story. These are the Macro views of the card-- what I call Holistic meanings on my website. There are also the Micro views of the cards, watching how particular images repeat and vary in proximity.

The TdM is rich with Optical analogies.

 

[Moonbow]

Welcome to the forum MaureenH,

You will find more threads about Camoin's method here in the last post:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=31857

For myself, I don't use his method of reading with the Marseilles and have a method which I have built up over the years of reading with the deck and studying the history of it. However, I do intend working through these Camoin threads when I can. Whichever method you chose to use for learning the deck, at some point you will likely adapt it to suit, and that is fine. With any given form of training/learning there is always personal development which is woven into it.

Moonbow*

 

[MaureenH]

Thank you.

 

[tmgrl2]

Moonbow*...thanks...I was just about to post same link and then clicked on yours....

I find it helpful to set the same card from different Marseille-decks next to each other...but, first, I, too, would suggest reading through some of the wonderful discussions on the various elements of card from different decks.

I agree with Moonbow*...best to work through meanings with the deck as you use it as well. With my TdM decks, each one has something slightly different in many cards and that "colors" my readings when I use them.

I know Camoin has a "method" of reading that has also been discussed here...I also have Jodorowsky's book, but, even after looking up many cards in it...I still come back to reading the cards in the moment, with my sitter, and focusing on what comes forward. I do use positions figures are facing, number meanings, suit meanings, colors, Majors vs. minors...as I would with any deck. The pips, at first, may offer a bit more of a challenge, but

spending some time reflecting on them ..especially within the context of a reading, brings out so much that might not seem to be there at first glance.

I don't necessarily ascribe truth to, for example, Hadar's and Camoin's claims that each of them have "restored" elements that were missing...or to their interpretations. Interesting to study and discuss...


terri

 

[MaureenH]

Sorry to have been so brief this a.m. That is a useful link and I've looked at it and many books over the last month and will continue to do so to try to expand my understanding of the many meanings put forth. I do feel pretty comfortable at times with my own sensations already. For instance, it occurred to me after weighing the various meanings in print that the XIII card above in my path spread makes me think of my propensity for genealogy and my love for digging up info on ancestors and finding the old graveyards they're buried in. Temperance is mixing paints and Strength is caring for all my pets.

I've been focusing on one pip each day and reading about them even though I'm not using them with this method. I just like looking at them. I'd love to compare them, but only have one deck. I'll give the Camoin way more time. I just felt like I was bastardizing(a word?) it. I suppose it doesn't matter how accurately I'm placing anything or what order I do anything given the wiggle room with the meanings. I am excited by looking for a sentence of sorts in the pictures, though.

 

[Moonbow]

Sounds to me as though you are right on target MaureenH, My readings didn't take off until I found a way to read which brought everything I had learnt together with how I felt about the cards personally.

Although some may not agree with Camoin's claims, there is no doubt to me that some of his methods of working with the deck are worthwhile.

If you want some practice in reading with a Marseilles I will happily do exchanges with you.

 

[tmgrl2]

Although some may not agree with Camoin's claims, there is no doubt to me that some of his methods of working with the deck are worthwhile.

Absolutely agree, Moonbow*. While I may not buy in to much of what I have read about any deck and the accompanying meanings from those who made them, there is always something, sometimes much that is of help. Have to read and sort and take what works.


Something for everyone....

terri

 

[frelkins]

I find the Camoin keywords interesting but sometimes a little strange. For example, Masion Dieu. Now I always thought this was a biblical reference to Exodus 9:23, to where Moses does his thing and God sends the plague of thunder and hail -- I believe the King James version says something about fire striking down to the ground too. Thus I've always seen the lightning and the blobs in the sky as hailstones. That Camoin/Jodo sees them as coins surprises me as the trumps are so obviously Biblical in their stories!

 

[Paul]

We must keep in mind that the Semiotics of the Tarot de Marseille are richer than just Symbolism.

The "iconicity" of the TdM lends itself to various semiotic devices when interpreting the art or Signs on the cards:

The Icon is the first type of Sign. The Icon has a semblance to that which is signified.

The Image has an aspect of similarity of to that which it signifies. It has a broader similarity to that which it signifies.

The Index points to something, much like our index finger points to something in a connective, sequential or causative way. Indices show us some element of a wider sequence.

The Symbol represents a concept but does not necessarily look like the concept (such as with an Icon, Image or Map), or point to the concept (such as with an Index), but represents a concept.

A Map or Diagram is an icon of its territory.

Metaphor and Metonymy are both figures of speech and work by associating two things. Metaphor matches two things that share some similarity.

Synecdoche (Si-nek’-do-kee). A whole concept is represented by one of its parts.

The context of the question provides the means to determine the analogy. In fact, the particular wording of the querent used in the reading may provide synchronicity to the reading.

I explain these concepts on my website; but, this is why the balls can be "coins".

Camoin to my knowledge does not explain the Tarot using formal Semiotic devices, but I found have Semiotics useful in summarizing the ways that the Tarot de Marseille in particular has been traditionally interpreted.