Nicoletta Ceccoli's Tarot

[La Force]

Tidbit from the Nicolleta Ceccoli Tarot Review - by Katrina de Witt

Okay everyone here is a little bit of info from my review I am writing about on this deck, enjoy

Nicoletta Ceccoli Tarot Review – By Katrina de Witt
78 Thoth / Marseille based - Tarot Cards
Artwork by Nicoletta Ceccoli
Instruction by Lunaea Weatherstone

Now let me talk about the deck structure first, this needs to be addressed, right off the bat, so that we can get this out of the way and carry on into the exciting part of my review.

What every Tarot Card Reader, looks for in a Tarot deck is Structure, and it's sad to say that some where in the process of this deck being created and published the Tarot Structure was well in a sense lost. Let me go into detail. First off and most importantly card ordering structure, Then you must have Imagery that fits and matches the card ordering structure. Then you must follow it up with traditional tarot meanings that correspond to both.

What I see, is a huge error on Lo Scarbeo – Deck creator side by Pietro Alligo, who edited the collection. Lo Scarbeo is in Torino, Itally. Itally is well known for Traditional Marseille Tarot decks. Here is where the huge error comes into place, The template card order structure used to create this deck, is for a Marseille deck.

Major Arcana 0 – 22 where La Force (Strength) is placed XI and La Justice (Justice) is placed VIII
Minor Arcana – Courts are Rante/Valet (Page) to Re/Roi (King)

Now every Tarot enthusist knows that Marseille decks are not illustrated in the minor arcana (pips)

Therefore we Tarot enthusists are left with a deck that is mishmashed together in all areas, here we have a deck with marseille card order structure, with imagery on all cards that don't match up, then to finalize the deck we include an instruction book that doesn't follow any traditional interpretation of card meanings.

What can we Tarot enthusists do about this serious issue with the Nicoletta Ceccoli Tarot, Well pay attention very carefully, I can help all those whom are interested with a solution. I will break it down in an easy to understand format.

The beauty of the Nicoletta Ceccoli Tarot, is that Lo Scarbeo didn't put any text/words on the cards making this deck very flexiable, so that it can be versatile, in a couple Traditional Tarot system structures.

Tarot readers who enjoy reading following the Marseille system, the card structure is correct you will just have to deal with images on the pips 2 – 10. You'll be able to work around it, no problem.

Tarot readers who enjoy reading following the Thoth system, the card structure in the Major Arcana and Minor arcana – Ace - 10 is correct, with the exception of the Court Cards (The King) you only need to call this card PRINCE, in your head, even though the symbol is a crown (Princes wear crowns). The next best news I can offer you is that all the imagery on all the cards matches up nicely to Aleister Crowley's Thoth instructional booklet, that comes with the Thoth deck. This would be the best system to use with this deck.

Tarot readers who enjoy reading following the Rider Waite system, sorry this deck does not follow it, The Major Arcana order is wrong, The Minor Arcana imagery is wrong, and the intructional interpretations for the card meanings are interpreted to fit the image, not the Rider Waite. I don't not advise this deck for you at all.

Tarot readers who prefer to read intuitively, that don't want to use any system, then this deck will be great for you.

ETA/BEGIN

This review is still in the process, much more will follow
La Force

 

[Tarotwolf]

Just read a couple old posts in regards to my two previous comments. I'm quite glad they elicited a response, but in all frankness I haven't even seen the whole deck yet; I was checking out the latest comments because I just put this deck in my Amazon cart and wanted to convince myself that it was worth buying.

The vibes I picked up originally are just that - vibes. And the quote from N.C. is directly from her, describing her own artwork, and taken in context. I posted her quote to let others know exactly how she views her own artwork. Others can view her images as innocent, but N.C. definantly doesn't hold such views.

Good art elicites strong emotional responses from those who view it. "Good" and "Bad" are almost irrelevant- art is meant to make you "Feel"! N.C. is truely a great artist because she makes us feel an emotional response when viewing her images! Peace.

 

[prudence]

Tarot wolf, I'm really glad you posted again and that you are buying this deck. I had written quite a long reply to this thread a couple of days ago, in response to some recent comments, but I decided to not submit it. I will add a very abridged version of that reply here.

I can't force others to see some of this deck's imagery through my lens of life experiences, and I wouldn't expect anyone to try to convince me to see it through their lens. I don't feel the same angry, reactive emotion from any of the images as some have expressed here, but I am still able to feel empathy for them and accept their truths. I don't have to like the deck any more or less because of anyone else's opinion of it.

I can say that no manner or amount of therapy will erase certain life experiences, if an evocative image, a sound, a smell or a song draws out of you a memory, it can be as simple as "oh there's that stuff" and nothing more. It just happens and it does not mean one needs more therapy at all. It is usually just an acknowledgment of having been triggered on some level.

I don't see any of this as a lack of imagination, or an inability to see a bit more depth in a still life of a bowl of fruit. It's simply another persons visceral reaction to deeply moving artwork. They were moved, it just happens that they were moved differently and to different areas of the emotional and imaginative spectrum than you or me. Artists are usually thrilled to move anyone, it doesn't matter the destination.

As an aside, child molestation is a very sensitive subject, and anyone who puts themselves out there as a survivor of it isn't necessarily looking for sympathy or a pat on the back, but seriously, empathy is always a welcome gesture, even if it is in a discussion about a deck you adore. There is just no need to mock, judge or make subtly snide remarks to anyone who has admitted to certain reactions to this deck. The deck, being inanimate has no feelings, the people posting here do feel, and will feel whatever has been sent to them in the form of a reply.

 

[Lunaea]

Tarot readers who enjoy reading following the Rider Waite system, sorry this deck does not follow it, The Major Arcana order is wrong, The Minor Arcana imagery is wrong, and the intructional interpretations for the card meanings are interpreted to fit the image, not the Rider Waite. I don't not advise this deck for you at all.

I'm enjoying this discussion of this fascinating deck. Since your review is still in process, I thought I'd pop in and say that the card interpretations are a blend of RWS meanings and inspiration from the cards' art itself. This is the case with any LWB I've written -- Fairy Lights, Mucha, Happy Tarot, etc., as well as my own Victorian Fairy and Mystical Cats tarots (though those are much longer books, of course -- BWBs!). I am passionate about tarot being a visual tool, where the art speaks to you and leads you through its imagery into your own interpretations. So if it reads like Marseilles to you, or Thoth, or any other system, or no system at all, go for it! But for the record, my text is favored with Smith-Waite.

 

[Yelell]

Tarot wolf, I'm really glad you posted again and that you are buying this deck. I had written quite a long reply to this thread a couple of days ago, in response to some recent comments, but I decided to not submit it. I will add a very abridged version of that reply here.

I can't force others to see some of this deck's imagery through my lens of life experiences, and I wouldn't expect anyone to try to convince me to see it through their lens. I don't feel the same angry, reactive emotion from any of the images as some have expressed here, but I am still able to feel empathy for them and accept their truths. I don't have to like the deck any more or less because of anyone else's opinion of it.

I can say that no manner or amount of therapy will erase certain life experiences, if an evocative image, a sound, a smell or a song draws out of you a memory, it can be as simple as "oh there's that stuff" and nothing more. It just happens and it does not mean one needs more therapy at all. It is usually just an acknowledgment of having been triggered on some level.

I don't see any of this as a lack of imagination, or an inability to see a bit more depth in a still life of a bowl of fruit. It's simply another persons visceral reaction to deeply moving artwork. They were moved, it just happens that they were moved differently and to different areas of the emotional and imaginative spectrum than you or me. Artists are usually thrilled to move anyone, it doesn't matter the destination.

As an aside, child molestation is a very sensitive subject, and anyone who puts themselves out there as a survivor of it isn't necessarily looking for sympathy or a pat on the back, but seriously, empathy is always a welcome gesture, even if it is in a discussion about a deck you adore. There is just no need to mock, judge or make subtly snide remarks to anyone who has admitted to certain reactions to this deck. The deck, being inanimate has no feelings, the people posting here do feel, and will feel whatever has been sent to them in the form of a reply.

I have to say I think it's a bit demeaning to imply anyone who does not like this deck has no imagination or lacks the skill to appreciate art. We are all different, from different backgrounds, life experiences, and upbringings. It is a wonderful thing that there are so many different forms of art, so that we can all seek out what is meaningful to us ... Hopefully without having to rip down those who do not agree.

I do not have a history of abuse, but I do not like this deck personally. I do not like the image of an unhappy nude child covering herself, for example, and that's just the box. This is from my upbringing, from what my father especially had taught me. He'd have a coronary hearing about art designed for adults depicting "sensuous" children.

I do not imply that whoever likes this deck is wrong. I am not starting a letter writing campaign to have it silenced for obscenity. I do think that those who have doubts about it deserve respect.

 

[prudence]

I have to say I think it's a bit demeaning to imply anyone who does not like this deck has no imagination or lacks the skill to appreciate art. We are all different, from different backgrounds, life experiences, and upbringings. It is a wonderful thing that there are so many different forms of art, so that we can all seek out what is meaningful to us ... Hopefully without having to rip down those who do not agree.

I do not have a history of abuse, but I do not like this deck personally. I do not like the image of an unhappy nude child covering herself, for example, and that's just the box. This is from my upbringing, from what my father especially had taught me. He'd have a coronary hearing about art designed for adults depicting "sensuous" children.

I do not imply that whoever likes this deck is wrong. I am not starting a letter writing campaign to have it silenced for obscenity. I do think that those who have doubts about it deserve respect.

thanks for commenting, Yelell, the one card that has given me pause throughout my exploration of the deck is that particular one that is on the box. It just gets me on a level that is deep. And dark, and sexual. And yeah, some people have expressed that thay are very glad that they don't "think this way". I am glad for them, they're lucky and fortunate in how their lives have been. No need to knock the others whose lives have involved such stuff.

 

[La Force]

I'm enjoying this discussion of this fascinating deck. Since your review is still in process, I thought I'd pop in and say that the card interpretations are a blend of RWS meanings and inspiration from the cards' art itself. This is the case with any LWB I've written -- Fairy Lights, Mucha, Happy Tarot, etc., as well as my own Victorian Fairy and Mystical Cats tarots (though those are much longer books, of course -- BWBs!). I am passionate about tarot being a visual tool, where the art speaks to you and leads you through its imagery into your own interpretations. So if it reads like Marseilles to you, or Thoth, or any other system, or no system at all, go for it! But for the record, my text is favored with Smith-Waite.

Lovely Lunaea that you have responded.

I am sorry to say this, but I need to say it. This is by far not knocking your creditability by any means.

RWS Traditional card order is 0 - 8. Strength, then 9 - 11. Justice

You can not deny this, therefore you can not deny that there is a serious Card order ERROR in the Nicoletta Ceccoli Tarot. You and Lo Scarabeo, should have noticed this, It's either your error due to you writing the LWB, or it's Lo Scarabeo editors, someone needs to take some responsibility for this, it's completely in black and white, look on the cards and in your LWB for the deck. There should be a reprint and recall of this deck. You also can not deny, that due to this error, it blows the RWS traditional card order system out the door. You also must be aware, that it will and has caused confusion. This needs to be addressed, whether anyone likes it or not. You can't market a deck as RWS, with the wrong card order. you'll end up causing people to argue the placing of Strength and Justice in the RWS system.

As far as your meanings go, yes I can see where you used RWS, and I can see where you didn't. but beaware sometimes straying, can cause Marketing issues, limiting the market to a few. Some things should be left up to the individual who reads the cards, it's not always good in some cases, if not, then it should be a oracle deck.

Therefore I can not, consciously in my review suggest this deck for the RWS system. Sorry, but I can't.

La Force

 

[Le Fanu]

This review is still in the process, much more will follow
La Force

I look forward to that. I can tell you're thinking long and hard about this deck.

I have to say I think it's a bit demeaning to imply anyone who does not like this deck has no imagination or lacks the skill to appreciate art...... I do not like the image of an unhappy nude child covering herself, for example, and that's just the box. This is from my upbringing, from what my father especially had taught me. He'd have a coronary hearing about art designed for adults depicting "sensuous" children.

Prudence didn't use the expression lack of imagination, I did. I was not talking about "not liking" a deck, I was talking about looking at a deck, looking at images and being led by the obvious, the surface. It is very easy to look at the Ceccolli and see children = sinister = sensuality. There's more to it than that. People can like or dislike but once you get to the reasons, they can be quite questionable. Or rather, they can be questioned.

 

[Yelell]

Let's see if I can get myself kicked off this forum

Prudence didn't use the expression lack of imagination, I did.

Yes, I know you did. I was actually responding directly to Prudence, but my lazy quoting may have been unclear.

I don't see any of this as a lack of imagination, or an inability to see a bit more depth in a still life of a bowl of fruit

Here is an interesting quote from Nicoletta taken from an interview discussing her artwork:


"Who are your characters and what story or message they have?

My stories are about the mysteries of adolescence. My girls innocently and sensually allure without being completely aware of this delicate passage. In my playful way, I like to suggest a mischievous sensuality. Some of my work brings to mind the iconography of the martyrs… St. Sebastian, St. Teresa…. bodies ‘slain’ in pain, but appearing almost in the throes of pleasure at the same time. These pictures show bodies of martyrs punished and tormented, and the more wounded and tormented they are, the more they shout their sensual presence"

Let's be real here, come on, all of us pre-teens have wild imaginations, and we did have sexual thoughts, fantasies, etc. even as an Adolescence. There is nothing wrong with exploring your sexuality in your mind and having fun with it.

I strongly believe there is a difference between the adolescent's exploration of their own sexuality and the depiction of adolescents sexually for the entertainment of an adult audience.

I was not talking about "not liking" a deck, I was talking about looking at a deck, looking at images and being led by the obvious, the surface. It is very easy to look at the Ceccolli and see children = sinister = sensuality. There's more to it than that. People can like or dislike but once you get to the reasons, they can be quite questionable. Or rather, they can be questioned.

Yet it seems like the deck itself is not allowed to be questioned. It is not that I cannot see the haunting beauty and expression of the art. There is boundary in my personal beliefs that is crossed, and I myself am not willing to look past it.

doesn't mean for others to take it so literally ( give an inch, take a mile )
.... I feel that if you have such negative feelings of past sexual abuse, then, just then maybe it's time you deal with these issues by using this deck, so that you can move past it.
La Force

someone who simply doesn't know how to look at art, doesn't know how art *works*......... There are things called allegory, metaphor, symbolism, inference and all that. it surprises me that people who read tarot aren't able to make that leap. Speaks volumes about how they must read tarot..... I think it shows acomplete lack of imagination and depth of thinking - sorry to be so blunt.

empathy is always a welcome gesture, even if it is in a discussion about a deck you adore. There is just no need to mock, judge or make subtly snide remarks to anyone who has admitted to certain reactions to this deck.

And what I said is I find the response to any criticism to this deck demeaning and harsh. What reaction were you hoping for? I'm SO sorry, you're right, the deck is fabulous? There seems more compassion towards the inanimate images on these pieces of paper than towards another human being. That is my concern.

 

[Alta]

Moderator note:

This thread is clearly evoking personal reactions to the deck, which is fine, but then turning these reactions onto each other, not so fine.

In order to have decent discussions, the moderators insist that posts not be about other members. As soon as we start decrying each others viewpoints rather than than discussion we wind up in name-calling country all too quickly.

Alta
Moderator