Property Horary

[gloria]

9th June 2008 15:02 51N25 000E04 (Regio)
Why no offers on property?

A friend of mine B has a second property that has been on the market for a few months but with no offers having been made. The agent fixed the price and B went along with it. She rents the house out to her daughter who, because of finding it difficult financially now wishes to down-size. (mortgage repayments have superseeded daughter's rent)

Therefore B, along with her husband, is hoping to sell property using money as security should husband be forced into taking early retirement.
My friends live in Canada by the way and I used B's time of email for chart, however, I am using my own coordinates. I am also using 4th for the house in question as in no way does the horary relate to her own property.
She expressed her concern that maybe agent priced it too high. The agent has shown a number of viewers around property but strangely still no offers. She expressed her concern that maybe agent priced it too high.

Ruling hour Moon is in triplicity of Venus (Asc ruler.) Plus Moon is relevant to question as it rules 10th house (price of property)
Venus rules B, who is combust the Sun (Gem) in 9th.
Mercury Rx rules agent (9th) and as she said they were all in unison about price. Or, was agent in a 'passive and receptive' state of mind at the time of inspecting property? (Merc Rx) Mercury is also combust.
As Saturn (property) in Virgo (11th) is in a stronger position than Moon (price) I surmised this wasn't the case. Plus the fact they seem to sit happily together in 11th or does this signify B's hopes and expectations?
Capricorn on 4th denotes an older property which it is. But I saw Jupiter in Capricorn as co-ruler of house because of its placing. The fact that it is Rx and in its fall I started to get a different picture of property. But B assures me it has been newly decorated with new fixtures and fittings in certain areas. I've even seen a copy of the agent's blurb and photo of house. (although as we know we can't take it as gospel when dealing with estate agents)
Pisces on 6th ruling tenants of property means Jupiter in Capricorn could signify daughter.
Mars in Leo ruler of potential buyer (7th) intercepted in 10th separates from Mercury (agent) by sextile showing a possible recent viewing but I find it hard to believe that still no offers have been made on property.
We really need to see an applying aspect between Lords 1 and 7 which might give hope of a sale but nothing doing here.

The yod formation looks interesting, but it is Jupiter that perplexes me, it is angular so must be of some importance.
I'd be thankful for any help.

 

[Minderwiz]

I think you have far too much information here without a clear view of the appropriate Houses to consider. Forget the Yod - of no importance at all in horary and forget Jupiter being important because it is angular. Jupiter is only important if it is a signficator in the horary, in which case angularity gives some idea of its strength. In this case Jupiter is not significant.

The place to start is who asked the question and what was it. Did your friend explicitly ask the horary question or did she simply express concern about the non-sale and you decided to ask the question. In the first case the question relates to 'my property' and is a fourth house matter (whether its the first, or second or even tenth property she owns). If you asked the question then it relates to 'my friend's property' in which case you are going to use the radical second house (fourth from the eleventh house of friends). Also in the latter case the timing should be the moment you decided to ask the question, not the time of her email. Indeed there is an argument that you should have used that time anyway as the key for timing is the moment that the Astrologer understood the question.

More important though, is the question about the house or is it about the possible sale? If we are talking about the offer of sale (of anything) and a possible offer to buy then we are dealing with a first and seventh house question. For the sale to take place there must be an aspect between rulers of the first and seventh and we will learn something about the possibilities for a sale by the condition of the rulers of first and seventh. The ruler of the fourth tells us something about the condition of the property concerned. If your friend asked the question then she is signified by Venus, which has some essential dignity and a lot of accidental dignity as Venus is Cazimi. The House is Saturn, and in so-so condition. It's not a great purchase, despite the strength of the seller, though there are no signs of serious problems with it.

The potential buyer is signified by Mars, ruler of the seventh. Mars is peregrine (unless there is a [potential first time buyer, I'd take this as indicating that the buyer is weak) and it is applying to the south node so the potential buyer is really weak. There's no potential aspect between Mars and Venus, nor possible translation of light - Mercury might have done this but is sadly retrograde and moving in the wrong direction.

No immediate sale is likely, so what should your friend do? At this point it's worth considering the Moon as significator of the price. The Moon is peregrine in Virgo so the price is a little lower than the house warrants. It would superficially seem to be a good offer price (as advised). But the Moon (price) is in the detriment of the seller (Venus) - the price hates the seller!! This price will not secure a sale no matter how much the advice says it is right.

Moreover it will not be long before Venus moves from Cazimi into Combustion. Indeed if you used the time you first understood the question then it would have been combust in the chart. The strength of the seller is short lived and may well have passed. I think it's time to review that offer for sale.

Now if you asked the question you will need to rework the interpretation using the ruler of the radical second to represent the house, the ruler of the radical eighth to signify the price and the eleventh and fifth to represent seller and potential buyer.

 

[gloria]

Thanks Minderwiz, yes my friend did ask the question.
As Jupiter rules the 6th of tenants I thought its placement just inside 4th symbolised B's daughter.
You mention Venus (B) as being cazimi...I assumed Venus was combust in chart, but please feel free to correct me on this point.
Maybe she ought to 'up' the price....perhaps potential buyers are seeing house as a liability rather than a bargain.

 

[Minderwiz]

Well I have the Sun at 19 Gemini 06 minutes and Venus at 19 Gemini 12 minutes a separation of 6 minutes. Cazimi is within an arc of 17 minutes of the centre of the Sun and Venus falls in that range in my chart. Outside that range 8 degrees 30 minutes of the Sun is Combust.

Both planets are in motion but the period of cazimi is around half a day or so. Thereafter Venus becomes combust. Therefore any strength is temporary and the sellers will soon be in a weaker situation

The House (Saturn) has some dignity by Terms so the House is OK but not outstanding. The price should be seen as a good deal as the price (The Moon) is weaker than the house would warrant. Normally I would have said that the agent had got it just right to entice buyers. The problem appears to be that for some reason price and sellers are not suited. (Moon in Venus Fall). It might be that the prospective buyers are put off by a low price but unless there's clear evidence that this is so, I'd still tend to look at the buyers perception of the house price as not being enticing enough. The Moon is slow in motion so again I'd take that as a sign that the price just isn't moving possible buyers fast enough. I suppose one possible interpretation of the peregrine Moon is that the price is being continually varied, so that potential buyers are waiting for the offer price to settle. However this does not seem to be consistent with your description.

Even if Jupiter were the significator of B's daughter (as the tenant) it is still not relevant to the question. If the question were along the lines of 'Does the sitting tenant put buyers off making an offer?' then Jupiter might be relevant (In this case I would see the daughter as fifth house (ruled by Saturn, so there might be an issue in chosing significators, if the daughter has an important role)

 

[The crowned one]

(off topic comment) I read this thread with utter fascination as my house is on the market too, not that her situation relates to mine, just the work that went into these idea's. Amazing, I am impressed even tho I do not really understand what is being said except in a very primitive way. It is enough to plant a hook in ones mind to look further into astrology.

 

[Minderwiz]

Horary really is fascinating and is a good antidote to the focus on Sun sign Astrology!

A couple of things that occured to me after my last post. The relatively poor condition of the Moon compared to Saturn may not mean that the price is pitched correctly (in terms of being inviting). The poor condition of the price could well mean that it is NOT seen as attractive by potential buyers - The price does not fit their perception of the house.

Secondly Gloria reported that B was not particularly happy about the price set and it may be this aspect of the 'offer' which is signified by the Moon being in Venus' Fall. Price and Seller are not in tune.

The strength of Venus in the horary could well signify that B is able to take action to correct the offer price. Planetary strength in horary shows an ability to act (if action is possible) but it does not say that the action will be taken (after all that's why the client is asking the question).

So the horary answer is probably that B should take action to correct the price so that it is more attrative to potential buyers. Lilly said that horary readings should mix art with descretion - that is that the context and conditions of the question should be taken into account. If Canada, like the UK, is undergoing the beginnings of a recession in the property market then buyers may well be unwilling to pay a price, which though reasonable now, might lead to negative equity in the future. The agent may well not have considered this context in setting the price but B may well consciously or unconsciously be aware of it.

 

[gloria]

Ah! yes thanks Minderwiz I see what you mean now regarding Venus being Cazimi. Its interesting what you say about period of cazimi being half a day or so, thereafter Venus being combust....temporary strength leading to weaker situation. I couldn't understand the combust condition of B but of course cazimi makes more sense, it describes her situation perfectly.

Thanks for all your help Minderwiz...shall keep you updated.

 

[gloria]

(off topic comment) I read this thread with utter fascination as my house is on the market too, not that her situation relates to mine, just the work that went into these idea's. Amazing, I am impressed even tho I do not really understand what is being said except in a very primitive way. It is enough to plant a hook in ones mind to look further into astrology.

Yes I agree, horary is a fascinating subject in Astrology, but I do tend to get tied up in knots sometimes.
Thanks to Minderwiz, some of these knots have now become unravelled.

 

[Minderwiz]

Gloria,

The thing to remember about horary is to keep to the question and focus on the significators of the key players or things. It's easy to try and start gathering information about everything but you need to combat the impulse to do that.

Natal Astrology is so concerned with integrating everything that the urge to do the same in horary can become overwhelming. Horary only concentrates on that part of the chart which is relevant to the question - all else can safely be ignored - unless the client asks a supplementary question or asks for more details.

I reallly love horary because it's so incisive - the interpretation is either right or wrong. If you get it wrong (and I've got a fair few wrong) you can review your answer and often find something that you've missed. You learn from your mistakes, which is not always the case with natal.

 

[gloria]

Gloria,

The thing to remember about horary is to keep to the question and focus on the significators of the key players or things. It's easy to try and start gathering information about everything but you need to combat the impulse to do that.

You are right Minderwiz regarding excess information......blame it on reading a non-traditional horary book.
Before I put Jupiter on the back-burner, is it at all feasible that it too can describe property by way of being co-significator? Or am I going off track again?
I noticed that Saturn (house) is in detriment to Mars (potential buyer).....the house itself doesn't seem to be attractive to buyers. Is there something specific that is putting them off?
Or could it be that Saturn conjunct Moon (price) is another way of confirming it is about the price?

Just an aside here Minderwiz, in your opinion, would you see Mars in Leo intercepted in 10th?