Property Horary

[Minderwiz]

Hi Gloria,

You're now asking supplementary questions so we can look at any further informatio the chart has to offer.

Mars is in the Fall of Saturn, so I agree the prospective buyers hate the house. Possible reasons in the real world be that it is something to do with the house per se or it is something to do with the price, relative to the perceived value of the house. Mars is also applying to a conkunction with the South Node – buyers may well be wary of unfortunate times to come. This certainly weakens the position of byuyers.

Incidentally, of course, the house (Saturn) is in the Fall of Venus – so the house and it’s price also hate the seller – it doesn’t want to be sold! There is a mutual reception between Venus and Saturn (Each is the triplicity ruler of the other) so the house is seen by B as comfortable and a good asset. She’s at home there and possibly doesn’t want to sell or at least, whilst her head may say sell, her heart is not so sure.

Looking at the house (Saturn) it is seemingly of reasonable value - it scores +3 points which is fair. It's in the eleventh, which is a good placement and it is also quick in motion. Against this it is also occidental (sets after the Sun). This looks like a fair house in a good situation. Perhaps prospective buyers are looking for something better in that locality? Saturn is not an exciting planet, so at another level of symbolism, it might well be an old house that has seen some better days, though probably structurally sound and reasonably appointed.

Saturn has mutual receptions (rullership and triplicity and triplicity and terms) with Mercury. Mercury rules the ninth, and as you’ve previously stated, is the signifcator of the agent – assuming we classify real estate agents as professionals and not servants. Your supplementary question does allow us to look at other factors in the chart and this relationship between agent and house may yield something. The agent may well have ‘oversold’ the house – built up expectations on the part of prospective buyers , who find that the house does not live up to these expectations.
There are possible reasons in the chart – these need to be checked with B - if they don’t match the situation then we’d look for more.

On your other point I don’t see Mars as intercepted in the tenth as it’s in Leo and the eleventh cusp is in Leo.

 

[Minderwiz]

PS

I should have added that Mercury is retrograde which takes the shine off the agent's rulership - whilst you might see a number of Mercury and Mercury retrograde associations, the chart perhaps simply shows the agent as not being as good as they appear and they've misjudged the situation.

If Estate Agents are 'servants' not 'professionals' , then the estate agent is sixth house and signified by Jupiter!

Jupiter is badly debilitated in terms of essential dignity and is also retrograde but picks up points for being angular in the fourth.

A terrible estate agent who happens to be in the right place to get the job.

Which house we would use for the agent might be a little tricky. No doubt the estate agent sees themselves as a professional, not an employee. If B also sees them as a professional we have no choice but to use Mercury.

If B sees the agent as a servant/employee then we might have an issue,

Either way if we are looking for reasons why buyer's don't like the house the actions of the estate agent may well have some baring.

We've fleshed out a little but we could do with some client feedback otherwise we could speculate for ever. Check some of these possibilities with B before we go much further.















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[gloria]

Looking at the house (Saturn) it is seemingly of reasonable value - it scores +3 points which is fair. It's in the eleventh, which is a good placement and it is also quick in motion. Against this it is also occidental (sets after the Sun). This looks like a fair house in a good situation. Perhaps prospective buyers are looking for something better in that locality? Saturn is not an exciting planet, so at another level of symbolism, it might well be an old house that has seen some better days, though probably structurally sound and reasonably appointed.

Minderwiz, I would say from what B has told me this is a very accurate desription of property. A corner plot, it is in a good situation and well-appointed with all neighbours taking pride in their homes. It is an older property but one that has been looked after whilst in their ownership.

Where B lives in Canada the system regarding (estate) agent is 'he' contacts seller if and when a potential buyer wishes to view property. A lock-box is put on the door so that agent can escort viewers through the house. So, nobody is ever there when this happens.
When they first called him in, he merely looked over property and got back to them with a price and how to 'market' it. In B's words, "You know how it is with any salesman' you just have to take everything with a pinch of salt. All I was really looking for is someone that knew how to price the place and present it for sale."
Although I would think 'servant' from that last sentence, I will get back to you as to how she really 'viewed' him. Servant or professional.

There is a contract with agent which ends late July. If property hasn't sold by then B will consider a 'For Sale by Owner' system. They can then reduce price of house by $10,000 which is the agent's fee. She feels the house was over-priced by this amount to cover agent's costs.

B is on a break and won't return until 2nd July so will show her your post then Minderwiz and see what she has to say. It will be interesting to hear how she views agent. If as a 6th house servant/employee then Jupiter can come off the back-burner.

BTW thanks for answering interception query, I realise now why not regarded as intercepted. Thanks for all your help Minderwiz.

 

[Minderwiz]

Thanks for the feedback

From what you say the horary does seem to describe the situation very well and I'd be really interested in B's observations and ideas.

I don't see this form of Astrology as necessarily providing instant solutions. In some cases it might, for example lost articles but even then the client has to 'make sense' of the Astrologer's interpretation by identifying actual locations from the Astrologer's rather general description. For example 'somewhere in the house near water' may prompt the Astrologer to suggest bathroom or kitchen as possible locations but if the client has a large fish tank in the front room then this should also be considered as a possible location. The Astrologer may not know this specific information but the client does and should be ready to put their take on the interpretation.

With this particular sort of horary the 'client' is looking for possible reasons and explanations for a situation. A dialogue between Astrologer and client will enable the client to review the situation in the light of the horary and hopefully formulate a plan of action. From what you've described B's plan does seem to fit the situation. My only concern might be that the price is still too high given the possible economic recession (Mars applying to South Node) but it's a good starting place for action.

Thanks for sharing the horary with us.

 

[gloria]

Hi Minderwiz, here is recent feedback from B.

" I do indeed feel that the agent took the wrong approach with the advertising of the house and has by now lost all interest in finding a buyer.

My other observation is to mention that during the last few weeks there are a lot more houses of a similar age and price range on the market which I'm sure must be a factor as well.

Also, this sentence really stood out to me 'A terrible estate agent who happens to be in the right place to get the job'.
In February of this year, in the middle of one hell of a snow storm, I saw people putting out 'for sale' signs on a house a few doors from where I live. Having nothing better to do in the winter I kept watch on what happened and sure enough the house sold in about 2 weeks. I decided to call the same agent that sold that house. That's who our agent is, based only on my 'gut' instinct. I now believe he fits the description of that sentence.

I'm not sure I view him as a servant/employee at least not consciously, but I do feel we made a bargain/contract and I'm not sure he has lived up to it."

When I read what B had to say regarding your sentence 'A terrible estate agent who happens to be in the right place to get the job' it sent a shiver through me. How very apt it was!

 

[Minderwiz]

Gloria,

Thanks for the feedback from B. From the response It looks to me as though B's relationship to the estate agent is, from her point of view, that of someone employing a tradesman (in the same sense that you would employ a plumber to see to your leaing tap or fit a new central heating boiler). She thought she was employing the services of someone to sell her house. The ninth house governs professionals, such as doctors, lawyers, accountants and teachers - someone you are employing for their expertise. It's not always an easy line to draw, which is why I think it comes down to how the relationship is perceived by the querent and the estate agent.

I would guess that the estate agent sees themselves more as a professional, providing expertise and does not feel under a significant obligation to actually push the sale. Even using Mercury as the estate agent shows problems with the sale but as the client, B is expecting the sale to be pushed and sees the relationship in a different light.

It certainly makes horary interesting and your instinct that Jupiter had a role proved a good one in the end.

 

[gloria]

On reflection Minderwiz I think maybe agent was more likely to be a 6th house servant/employee, after all as you say, estate agents are not 'professionals' as such. Of course we know they do consider themselves to be, but sadly I feel they often fall short of this, and lets face it, any Tom Dick or Harry can open up shop as an estate agent, as far as I know specific qualifications aren't necessary.
I'd used the 9th for agent, but of course this wasn't from a traditional view. If I'd used 6th to begin with it would have been a far clearer picture.
Jupiter had its day after all.
Thanks again Minderwiz

 

[Minderwiz]

It's not a matter of a traditional approach per se. It's more one of deciding on the relationship involved. Traditionally the professions are ninth house, the house of learned people. The sixth is the house of servants. The problem here is deciding whether the estate agent is the equivalent of a 'learned person' or a 'servant' - The traditional approach to astrology does not provide an answer in this particular case (for obvious reasons). Indeed I don't know of any work that would answer this question. As 'the astrologer' we need to exercise a judgement and obviously we can be wrontg (both of us started with the estate agent as ninth house).

I've come across parallel situations through my reading and that's why I looked at the alternative view of the estate agent as a servant. Next time such a situation arises we will both remember this case and be prepared to think a little bit deeper about the nature of the relationship.

I've enjoyed the challenge that you presented Gloria and I hope that we can share another horary analysis in the future.