reading the pictures... ignoring the LWB

greatdane

LWB's in general

I have found some lwb's quite handy (the one with the Anna.K for example) and others, um, not so much, in fact, I tossed them. I get that some lwb's are supposed to come in handy in explaining a particular deck's intent, but I've found some that seemed to not have much to do with the artist's vision. If they aren't written by the artist, or have a lot of input by the artist, doesn't seem to be much point. It then just becames someone else trying to translate THEIR idea of the artist's vision or give their idea of how a deck should be read.
 

linnie

greatdane said:
I have found some lwb's quite handy (the one with the Anna.K for example) and others, um, not so much, in fact, I tossed them. I get that some lwb's are supposed to come in handy in explaining a particular deck's intent, but I've found some that seemed to not have much to do with the artist's vision. If they aren't written by the artist, or have a lot of input by the artist, doesn't seem to be much point. It then just becames someone else trying to translate THEIR idea of the artist's vision or give their idea of how a deck should be read.

I must confess that, having just received my Anna K (thank you, Seeker*13*! :)), I am really enjoying Anna K's LWB... The connection between the artist and author, and the intention behind the LWB, certainly does seem to be a major decider for me in how useful the LWB will become... but intuition is still a major component... absolutely!!! :)
 

greatdane

I hear ya, Linnie! :)

I absolutely get the intuitive part. I just think for an lwb, Anna did a reallly good job. It does help me see what she was thinking re each card and gives me more to work with and more options. I know in the end, it is the reader who reads the cards, but I find some lwb's useful, but most, not so much.

Blessings,
GD
 

emmsma

I think you've hit on the main problem with many lwb's these days. Many LWB's (LS I'm lookin' at you!) just give a little list of keywords.

The best thing about a lwb is getting those little details of why an artist added this or that to the card. These are the tidbits to hang onto, and that I find useful in future readings.
 

shaveling

This isn't a LWB example. (I have no idea when LWBs began.) But it is an example of a Taroist writing a book giving divinatory meanings connected with his philosophical meanings of the cards, and then saying that intuition can, and often does, supplant the book meaning in divination.

In the second part of The Tarot of the Bohemians (1892), Papus gives a system of divinatory meanings for the cards. It's a seriously systematic numbers + suit system, combining the pattern of thesis, antithesis, synthesis with the Hebrew letters of the Tetragrammaton, the four-lettered name of God; along with a rather straightforward and narrow reading of the symbolism of the majors (Lovers=love, Justice=justice, Star=hope,). But he keeps pointing out that the reader's intuition can override the given meanings.

In Chapter XX he says:
The truth of the predictions, then, depends upon the intuition of the prophet, and this leads us to consider the differences which may be noticed between the predictions of fortune-tellers.
and:
Intuition plays the most important part when the more exact methods disappear, and therefore woman's nature, which is essentially intuitive, is well qualified to read these divinations.
And he ends the chapter with:
Lastly, we will explain the principal methods used by masters in the art of fortune-telling, so as to enable our readers to become adepts in the prediction of the future. But we must remind them that science has little empire over the subject, and that imagination and intuition reign over this charming domain.

His Second Lesson on divination, which gives his system of meanings for the minor arcana ends with:
It therefore requires little time to thoroughly learn the meaning of the minor arcana, even without much memory. We advise those readers who fear they may forget them, to simply write the meaning on the cards themselves. However, professional card readers are careful not to do this, for intuition often leads them to an interpretation which differs from the exact meaning of the card.

The Seventh Lesson, the conclusion of the divinatory section, contains this statement:
Our readers are therefore able to choose whichever system they prefer, and whichever they find most successful. We must repeat that intuition is the great secret of all these divining arts, and that fortune-telling by cards, in water, in earth, or coffee, is precisely the same thing.

I suppose this is a bit broader than a strict "reading the pictures" approach, though. Papus leaves things to the reader's intuition without that limitation. It could, for example, be a matter of what the reader thinks of Queens and of Cups in a given reading, and not what the reader thinks of a particular picture of a Queen of Cups.

Although Papus is talking about something like "tossing LWBs" (as Herzog put it), he doesn't seem to be so much offering something new so as he is saying (in the late 1800's), "This is how it is done. Readers can and do use their intuitions, instead of book meanings, so feel free to do the same." We don't have an awful lot of old literature on reading the cards. So this may really be the first written record we have of that advice. But I don't know, and would enjoy learning about earlier examples.
 

linnie

greatdane said:
I absolutely get the intuitive part. I just think for an lwb, Anna did a reallly good job. It does help me see what she was thinking re each card and gives me more to work with and more options. I know in the end, it is the reader who reads the cards, but I find some lwb's useful, but most, not so much.

Blessings,
GD

In total agreement with you, GD :)

emmsma said:
I think you've hit on the main problem with many lwb's these days. Many LWB's (LS I'm lookin' at you!) just give a little list of keywords. The best thing about a lwb is getting those little details of why an artist added this or that to the card. These are the tidbits to hang onto, and that I find useful in future readings.

And with you, emmsma... :) The little tidbits, indeed. :)

(note.... emmsma is already familiar with my own cards (thank you :)) and probably knows, by now, that in my little book I am, well, almost over-generous in my explanation behind the images, because I wanted those who choose to read the lwb to understand why they are as they are... The alternative is to simply dismiss all or some of what I say... and that option is every bit as valid! :))

Nice talking with you... oh, and I've replied to your PM, GD. Thank you :)
 

pandan49

How many people started ignoring the books and LWBs because the explanations and details provided by the artist/author did not fit with what they were seeing?

We cannot help but bring our own interpretations to the table. When we look at pictures we experience feelings whether or not that was what the artist intended. We can't ignore these feelings.
 

gregory

darcellbishadow said:
One of the most eye-opening experiences I've had with a tarot deck occurred when I handed the Vanessa Tarot over to my friend who had no idea what the cards were for, what each card was supposed to mean (LWB style), or any belief whatsoever in foresight.

She flipped through the deck and told me exactly what each card meant, just looking at the pictures.
Yes - I've had people who know NOTHING about the cards do that too - it's quite scary. I don't use "generic meanings" at all, myself; when I tried, I was blocked. I just couldn't DO it. The "meanings" got in the way. BUT - I think the reason they are tarot cards is that they have tarot in them. I have tried with magazine pix and postcards and even :)shhh:) ORACLES. They refuse to talk to me. And I have come to the conclusion that when putting together tarot cards, the creators put in what we all "know", as you might say. There is an angel with a trumpet because that is something we recognise as meaning the day of judgement. So - whether or not we use the BOOK, we still recognise a snail as something slow, the sun as something warm and so on.

Sure - this stuff is in the LWB - but we can SEE it without that, IMHO. Symbols are things we recognise in our gut. We KNOW what they say. So when we "just look at the pictures" - the pictures are what do it.
 

Le Fanu

Inthetree said:
The art is designed to illustrate the LWB meaning. I don't see how reading the artwork is tossing the LWB. You're just reading it pictorally rather then squinting at the tiny print :)
What a radical thing to say :D... You know I never get this impression. I don't think I can think of a single deck where the meanings of the LWB tie in perfectly with the visuals of the card. When it is a companion book, yes, but a LWB? Only if it is a very well summarised one taken from the book (Im thinking Karen's & Sophie's books for the MRP decks), but even then you cannot always include the logical steps that explain why that image has that meaning.

Seriously, most of the time, LWB meanings I see give off an air of having to be "memorised."

I always read them though, just out of curiosity and respect for those who put this tarot package together.

But it is an odd thing when you think about it; a visual image then random words, when most decks which are published now have this narrative aspect (or rather, we are encourged to think in these terms). The cards tell us something and it is invariably part of a narrative. In fact, we are encouraged to develop narratives. Why? I think I would quite like to rebel against this storytelling aspect of card-reading and think about states & introspection instead. Why does everything have to be a narrative? Too much influence of movies perhaps. I don't feel a grand narrative in my life at all. It is actually quite difficult to represent a state; and to read cards which deal with states and not movement if you get my drift.

Basically, what I mean is that cards show scenes, things in progress (we say "scenic", "non-scenic"), LWBs usually show adjectives. That is why they don't tally.

I am currently returning (in my thinking) to the Etteilla decks, thinking of looking at them again once I give the Dodal a rest.

I would like to know what actually happens if we memorise meanings (as I would have to do if I studied the Etteillas). Does anybody do this nowadays? I would like to try. Do people consider it impossible now?

One thing I am certain of is that many gyspy readings over the centuries would have had their roots in memorising. I really think that. They were much better at memorising things in the past than we are. I think we tend to look down on memorising and see it as inferior to "intuition", more mechanical, and that a reading like this wouldn't hang together quite as well as one done "intuitively" and I think we associate LWBs as tiny memorising manuals and shrink back in horror.

(excuse my speech marks. I have enormous difficulty using this word "intuitive"... No idea what it means. )
 

linnie

gregory said:
and even :)shhh:) ORACLES.

We'll have to agree to disagree about oracles, gregory, or my hypocrisy would be untenable, but I totally hear what you are saying re the symbols etc. There are universal symbols, and they do resonate with our collective subconscious, so if we really sit with them, we should find our way minus the LWB......... in most instances! :)

Some tarot decks omit the more useful symbols and stick to the more superficial, which tell only part of the story... Interestingly, Anna Ks cards are less traditional in the placement/use of the regular symbols, but include more emotive symbols, by way of facial expressions/colour to portray mood etc... which is something we've all been honed, inherently, to read since birth... and so her deck works... :) Still symbols of sorts, I guess. :)

gregory said:
And I have come to the conclusion that when putting together tarot cards, the creators put in what we all "know", as you might say. There is an angel with a trumpet because that is something we recognise as meaning the day of judgement. So - whether or not we use the BOOK, we still recognise a snail as something slow, the sun as something warm and so on.

Yes... By their very nature, oracles are free from the disciplined structure of tarot, which of course presents its own challenge. So does the fact that, as universal as symbols may be assumed to be, there remains variation and differing opinions between cultures ... And, whilst many symbols are truly universal... the Sun, as you pointed out... do all cultures view the angel with a trumpet as Judgement Day, or do we, of Christian cultural background - whether practising or no - simply assume that? I imagine that there are many symbols from other cultures, very well understood in that time and place, that would require research by someone not of that same culture... just look at national flags and etc... :)

Not trying to be argumentative, dear gregory, in fact, in an earlier post, I actually brought up the phenomenom of universal symbols and their resonance with the collective unconscious myself, by way of supporting life without LWBs, but this thread has left me pondering further... 'Tis a complex thing, this Life of ours, isn't it!? No time to be bored, too much to learn!!! Excellent!!! :)

Have a wonder-filled day/night :)